[Labs-l] open grid on bots

[Petr Bena]

Distrust? Bots cluster have been created long time before tools labs.
What I understand as a distrust is that wmf secretly started a new
project with only aim which is to overtake the current one - community
maintained, probably because people in wmf don't believe that anything
operated by volunteers can ever work.

However, regarding GS - we discussed it on irc, and some people knew
that we want to install some scheduling for ages. It was no secret at
all.

On Mon, Mar 11, 2013 at 8:09 PM, Tim Landscheidt <tim at tim-landscheidt.de> wrote:
> Petr Bena <benapetr at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> But I still fail to see why you believe that cluster operated and
>> maintained by volunteer sysadmins should be less stable than cluster
>> maintained by paid wmf staff. Not all volunteers are that dumb to
>> randomly break everything.
>
> I have yet to see Marc assert that only paid WMF staff can
> admin Tool Labs; I think he put emphasis on the point that
> (any) admin work just has to be very disciplined on Tool
> Labs so to provide a reliable infrastructure (and I second
> that).
>
>> I would myself rather host my bots on a cluster where I can easily set
>> it up and have constant support anytime I need, rather than some
>> cluster which is mostly only "self-maintained" in the means that users
>> can't change anything but the tool itself, and for anything which
>> requires sysadmin attention (there will be lot of needs for that) will
>> have to wait for ages - just as they have to on tool server now.
>
>> [...]
>
> Toolserver has one (I believe (very) part-time) paid and one
> volunteer admin (who also live in the same time zone).  I
> don't think it's fair to compare this to the Tool Labs where
> the "Tools Lab Operations Engineer" (*1) alone works
> 40 h/week.
>
> Also, what surprised me (and so I understand Marc's initial
> "Err, guys, duplication of efforts?") is the secrecy in
> which you set up the grid on Bots.  When you have someone
> knowledgeable around, it's not only unnecessary work not to
> draw on the experiences (= failures) he already made, it
> also has a very bad vibe as it looks as if there is some
> distrust.
>
> Tim
>
> (*1)   "Tool*s* Lab"!  If it weren't that late in the game,
>        we should use some other (one-word) name.
>        "Toolzilla".  "Toolit".  "Xanadu".
>
>
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