<div dir="ltr">There is some association with a private GLAM mailing list. I could not find out more, and I cannot give more details without risk of exposing someone's identity. No idea if it is a NDA, NCA or NPA or something else, even a misunderstanding, you know how people can be, but why would something be secret if it does not exist? If you know people in these institutions maybe you can count for yourself how many of them are anonymous and how many list their employers on their talk page, and if there is some uniformity, how that might have come to be. I am unable to go further with this issue, but as they say, first do no harm, my loyalty will be to protecting the careers and reputations of real people, I do believe this should be the best interest of the WMF as well. It is sad that when there can be no public discussions of these issues without reprisals, only the private channels remain.<br></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 2:59 PM, Robert Fernandez <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:wikigamaliel@gmail.com" target="_blank">wikigamaliel@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">No, that's exactly the opposite of what was said. I did not say I signed a non-disparagement agreement. I said I signed the standard WMF confidentiality agreement. <div><br></div><div>You can read it here: <a href="https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Confidentiality_agreement_for_nonpublic_information/" target="_blank">https://meta.wikimedia.org/wik<wbr>i/Confidentiality_agreement_<wbr>for_nonpublic_information/</a> Everyone signs it for even mundane things. I first signed it when I processed free database accounts for The Wikipedia Library and had access to names and email addresses of editors. </div><div><br></div><div>You can see there's nothing in it about non-disparagement. I feel quite free to disparage any person or institution that I choose. </div><div><br></div><div>Given that you are unable to distinguish between a routine confidentiality agreement and a non-disparagement agreement, or between normal criticism and the suppression of discussion, I'm pretty confident that these alleged NPAs have never existed. <br></div><div><br></div><div>The idea that Risker "wants to suppress all discussion" of these alleged NPAs is nonsense. She merely pointed out, quite correctly, that spreading baseless allegations is quite damaging to the very causes you profess to care about. Please consider that before you continue to double down on a baseless allegation. There are plenty of legitimate criticisms to level at the Foundation and this community for ineptness and inaction in these areas without making things up. </div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br><div><div><br></div><div><br></div></div></div></div><div class="HOEnZb"><div class="h5"><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 2:11 PM, Neotarf <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:neotarf@gmail.com" target="_blank">neotarf@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div>So we have two former arbitrators on this list, one of whom has offered to assist in evaluating this thing privately, and who has himself signed such a non-disparagement agreement, and another who wants to suppress all discussion of it. We don't know if she has signed such an agreement. <br><br></div>Publications like the New York Times and Washington Post do print and evaluate information without naming sources, and it is true they are sometimes called "fake news" on Twitter, but does not make the information "factless", or prevent Wikipedia from consider them to be RS.<br></div><div class="m_1094148392060686585HOEnZb"><div class="m_1094148392060686585h5"><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 10:14 AM, Risker <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:risker.wp@gmail.com" target="_blank">risker.wp@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div><div>So, in other words, you have no evidence at all, except for some gossip, that *anyone* is being required to sign NDAs in order to edit Wikipedia. You have some information that suggests other organizations, completely separate from Wikipedia, <br><br></div>It's bad enough that women do, indeed, face greater sexual harassment both societally and on Wikimedia projects, something that is quantified in various ways even if there is some question about the accuracy of that quantification. Sesnsationalistic statements such as yours, without any evidence at all, have a very significant negative impact on the ability to fight such harassment, especially when they seem so absurd. Simply put, it's factless allegation, or what certain sectors of the American public have come to term "fake news". Please retract your statement. <br><br></div>Risker/Anne<br></div><div class="m_1094148392060686585m_7707842405673149367HOEnZb"><div class="m_1094148392060686585m_7707842405673149367h5"><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On 7 August 2017 at 08:21, Neotarf <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:neotarf@gmail.com" target="_blank">neotarf@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div>I have no way of investigating something I was not supposed to find out about in the first place. Given Wikipedia's culture of retaliation against anyone who speaks out, I am unlikely to find out more, but it did seem credible. These agreements are becoming more common, for instance here a female employee wanted to get out of her non-disparagement agreement but Angel List said no. <a href="https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/21/technology/silicon-valley-sexual-harassment-non-disparagement-agreements.html" target="_blank">https://www.nytimes.com/2017/0<wbr>7/21/technology/silicon-valley<wbr>-sexual-harassment-non-dispara<wbr>gement-agreements.html</a> Also the internal Google gender manifesto that was just leaked "Until about a week ago, you would have heard very little from me publicly about this, because (as a fairly senior Googler) my job would have been to deal with it internally, and confidentiality rules would have prevented me from saying much in public.But as it happens, (although this wasn’t the way I was planning on announcing it) I actually recently left Google..." <a href="https://medium.com/@yonatanzunger/so-about-this-googlers-manifesto-1e3773ed1788" target="_blank">https://medium.com/@yonatanzun<wbr>ger/so-about-this-googlers-man<wbr>ifesto-1e3773ed1788</a><br><span style="color:rgb(20,23,26);font-family:"Segoe UI",Arial,sans-serif;font-size:14px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:left;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:pre-wrap;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(245,248,250);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;display:inline;float:none"><br></span><span style="color:rgb(20,23,26);font-family:"Segoe UI",Arial,sans-serif;font-size:14px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:left;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:pre-wrap;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(245,248,250);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;display:inline;float:none"></span></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div><div class="m_1094148392060686585m_7707842405673149367m_3923356310175777353h5">On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 3:16 AM, Risker <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:risker.wp@gmail.com" target="_blank">risker.wp@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br></div></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div><div class="m_1094148392060686585m_7707842405673149367m_3923356310175777353h5"><div dir="ltr"><br><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On 6 August 2017 at 23:08, Neotarf <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:neotarf@gmail.com" target="_blank">neotarf@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">......<span><br><br>Women who do not want to interact on these terms, with individuals who are quite probably minors, are being silenced. I have heard that
professional women are being recruited for Wikipedia, women whose employers would ordinarily be expected to protect them from a 'hostile work place', but they are being required
to post their real identities on their talk pages, along with the names
of their employers. and a COI form statement. They are also required to sign
a non-disclosure agreement that prevents them from revealing any
harassment they experience in Wikipedia, or from even revealing they
have been required to sign an NDA. These women will join Wikipedia,
and listen to the pitch and eat the bagels, and Wikipedia gets to count
them as female editors, but very few of them go on to make that second
edit, because it's their professional reputation on the line. <br><br>If Wikipedia wants women editors they are going to have to come to terms with this.<div><div><div> <span></span><br><span></span></div></div></div></span></div><br></blockquote></div><br></div><div class="gmail_extra">This is a very inflammatory thing to say, Neotarf, and I need to insist that you show some proof of this. Links to discussions or requirements, please. This is far too sensationalistic to allow it to sit here without serious evidence. <br><br></div><div class="gmail_extra">Risker/Anne<br></div></div>
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