[Gendergap] Proposal: Forking gendergap: Main list for women and transgender, sublist for male supporters

[George Herbert]

On Mon, Mar 14, 2011 at 5:14 PM, Laura Hale <laura at fanhistory.com> wrote:
> I'd like to propose that the gendergap be forked.  The main list would be
> for women and transgendered who want to work together to help increase
> female participation on Wikipedia and other Wikimedia Foundation projects.
> The fork list would be for male allies who want to work towards a similar
> goal.
>
> This proposal is based on two things. The first idea is that women
> themselves can probably best identify areas and needs regarding female
> participation on Wikipedia. Assuming good faith, male contributors on the
> list probably do really want to help work towards this goal and have women's
> best interest at heart and want to see improvement in the total number of
> female participants on the wiki... but there has been a fairly sizable
> amount of research in the NGO sector in countries like Africa, where outside
> organisations were not as effective as local organisations at identifying
> local problems and creating solutions that work best in a local context.  In
> this situation, women and transgenders would be the local community and men
> would be the international NGOs.
>
> The second issue is that at the moment, men appear to be dominating the
> conversation.  (This may not by correct and I apologise if I am wrong.  I'm
> making this assumption based on the names of participants involved.)  Men
> are posting content with suggestions for women.  Men are debating if women
> find the term dick offensive.  Men aren't asking the women on the list if
> they have resources that they think other women might find useful.  Men do
> not appear to be asking the women on the list what their opinions are
> regarding the use of the term dick and if women on the list find the term
> offensive.  Rather, it appears that men are speaking for women without their
> consent.
>
> I'd really like men to continue to be involved.  I think the best way would
> be for the creation of a sublist, specifically created for men.  As allies,
> they can discuss how to improve the rate of women's involvement.  As men on
> that strategies sublist about the creation and implementation of solutions
> to increase female participation, the information can be summarised and sent
> to some one else off list to be posted to the main list.
>
> I just worry at the moment that the heavy male involvement is intimidating
> and keeping some women from participating.
>
> Sincerely,
> Laura Hale

I realize that my replying is in a sense violating what I'm about to
say below, but...

I and some others who are male are here and either listening, or
listening and briefly asking what the women present (and absent) feel
about things and not asserting what you do or should think.

I would appreciate not being locked out of part of the discussion.  I
appreciate that doing so necessarily means I should be minimizing my
speaking out, and maximizing my listening, and I hope I've done so
successfully.

That said, if the dynamics here overall have created a list which is
not optimal for encouraging women to participate, which I can clearly
see is possible, I understand your wanting to do something about it.
Two lists as proposed might be necessary.

If this has happened on the list designed to talk about and fix the
problem of that happening...  *bang head on the wall*   Talk about
frustrating.  We're supposed to be the "good guys", literally 8-(


My two cents, and I will now go back to listening.


-- 
-george william herbert
george.herbert at gmail.com