[Foundation-l] Movement roles letter, Feb 2012

[Jan-Bart de Vreede]

Hi Ziko and Lodewijk,

Thank you for this feedback. I must say that I was not intimately involved in these recommendations, and my take was that this was something that came out of the MR workgroup, and we had actually waited too long to approve these recommendations.

It is clear to me that there is a close link between the fundraising/dissemination discussion and the increased options of "organising" ourselves. I am also convinced that we need to increase the different kinds of organisation methods that we support.

But lets take the time to discuss the content of this proposal. If that means we need to take an extra month, so be it (would be my personal opinion) and make sure that we end up with something that is a marked improvement on the current situation. And we might have to refine it in the coming years (as we will have to do with most of the things we are trying to settle at this point :)

Thanks for your constructive feedback!

Jan-Bart

Op 14 feb. 2012, om 14:23 heeft Ziko van Dijk het volgende geschreven:

> Lodewijk,
> I remember the session in Haifa very well. The audience found it
> extremely difficult to understand the texts and do anything with them
> - think of the awkward silence when the group asked for feedback. It
> must be possible to criticize the texts in spite of their alleged
> "roughness". And indeed, after Haifa we never neard from the group
> again, its members also did not take part in the discussion on the
> concerning meta talk page. Now, suddenly, the content of what you call
> "very rough and a first phase" is put on the table again. So I take it
> seriously and say what according to me must be said.
> 
> Kind regards
> Ziko
> 
> 
> 
> 2012/2/14 Lodewijk <lodewijk at effeietsanders.org>:
>> Hi Ziko,
>> 
>> what was presented at Wikimania, was only supposed to be very rough and a
>> first phase. The idea was to then continue the process further - somehow
>> that never really happened. I agree there were and are quite some flaws in
>> the design (for which I don't necessarily see an immediate solution). When
>> wordings are the problem, we can probably fix that together - it is more
>> important that we agree on the actual content - and that seems hard enough
>> as it is. I'm afraid that a new group at this point would bump into the
>> same problems as the old one did, and has to go through that whole learning
>> process all over again.
>> 
>> So yes, lets be critical, and constructive as much as possible.
>> 
>> best,
>> Lodewijk
>> 
>> No dia 14 de Fevereiro de 2012 00:57, Ziko van Dijk
>> <vandijk at wmnederland.nl>escreveu:
>> 
>>> Hello,
>>> 
>>> I am afraid that the letter takes over the "results" of the MR group
>>> that where presented at Wikimania 2011. There nobody, as far as I
>>> remember, who was enthousiast about those results. My board colleague
>>> Marco, for example, was stunned that the MR group thought that the
>>> International Olympic Committee were a great model for us because of
>>> its transparency (!).
>>> 
>>> The wordings were unsatisfying, and we couldn't make up much of the
>>> proposed "charter" text. On the talk page I later commented that the
>>> WMF should call for a new group. I would like to interpret this new
>>> letter as an invitation to think about entities and its names again.
>>> 
>>> It would be nice if the expressions could be more self-explanitory,
>>> and if we had more information about what these new entities will be
>>> for. What problems will be solved by establishing them, what problems
>>> could emerge etc.
>>> 
>>> Kind regards
>>> Ziko
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -----------------------------------------------------------
>>> Vereniging Wikimedia Nederland
>>> dr. Ziko van Dijk, voorzitter
>>> http://wmnederland.nl/
>>> -----------------------------------------------------------
>>> 
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> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> -----------------------------------------------------------
> Vereniging Wikimedia Nederland
> dr. Ziko van Dijk, voorzitter
> http://wmnederland.nl/
> -----------------------------------------------------------
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