[Foundation-l] Movement roles letter, Feb 2012

[Lodewijk]

Hi Ziko,

if you're saying that the proposals should not get 'extra points' because
they happen to come from a working group that did not function optimally
(far from that - although it was definitely not useless either) I totally
agree. Just review the proposals on their own merits, and consider its
impact rather than its source.

Best,
Lodewijk

No dia 14 de Fevereiro de 2012 14:23, Ziko van Dijk
<vandijk at wmnederland.nl>escreveu:

> Lodewijk,
> I remember the session in Haifa very well. The audience found it
> extremely difficult to understand the texts and do anything with them
> - think of the awkward silence when the group asked for feedback. It
> must be possible to criticize the texts in spite of their alleged
> "roughness". And indeed, after Haifa we never neard from the group
> again, its members also did not take part in the discussion on the
> concerning meta talk page. Now, suddenly, the content of what you call
> "very rough and a first phase" is put on the table again. So I take it
> seriously and say what according to me must be said.
>
> Kind regards
> Ziko
>
>
>
> 2012/2/14 Lodewijk <lodewijk at effeietsanders.org>:
> > Hi Ziko,
> >
> > what was presented at Wikimania, was only supposed to be very rough and a
> > first phase. The idea was to then continue the process further - somehow
> > that never really happened. I agree there were and are quite some flaws
> in
> > the design (for which I don't necessarily see an immediate solution).
> When
> > wordings are the problem, we can probably fix that together - it is more
> > important that we agree on the actual content - and that seems hard
> enough
> > as it is. I'm afraid that a new group at this point would bump into the
> > same problems as the old one did, and has to go through that whole
> learning
> > process all over again.
> >
> > So yes, lets be critical, and constructive as much as possible.
> >
> > best,
> > Lodewijk
> >
> > No dia 14 de Fevereiro de 2012 00:57, Ziko van Dijk
> > <vandijk at wmnederland.nl>escreveu:
> >
> >> Hello,
> >>
> >> I am afraid that the letter takes over the "results" of the MR group
> >> that where presented at Wikimania 2011. There nobody, as far as I
> >> remember, who was enthousiast about those results. My board colleague
> >> Marco, for example, was stunned that the MR group thought that the
> >> International Olympic Committee were a great model for us because of
> >> its transparency (!).
> >>
> >> The wordings were unsatisfying, and we couldn't make up much of the
> >> proposed "charter" text. On the talk page I later commented that the
> >> WMF should call for a new group. I would like to interpret this new
> >> letter as an invitation to think about entities and its names again.
> >>
> >> It would be nice if the expressions could be more self-explanitory,
> >> and if we had more information about what these new entities will be
> >> for. What problems will be solved by establishing them, what problems
> >> could emerge etc.
> >>
> >> Kind regards
> >> Ziko
> >>
> >>
> >> -----------------------------------------------------------
> >> Vereniging Wikimedia Nederland
> >> dr. Ziko van Dijk, voorzitter
> >> http://wmnederland.nl/
> >> -----------------------------------------------------------
> >>
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>
>
> --
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------
> Vereniging Wikimedia Nederland
> dr. Ziko van Dijk, voorzitter
> http://wmnederland.nl/
> -----------------------------------------------------------
>
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