[Foundation-l] WikiKids - Vikidia: encyclopedia for children
Mathias Damour
mathias.damour at laposte.net
Sat Nov 19 18:54:02 UTC 2011
Hi all,
I've tried to compile some of the old messages and discussions about
this topic, which has been put in light time to time, notably (as far as
I know) three times on this mailing list from 2005 to 2010 (see below).
I am a French wikipedian, and would like to tell you about this pretty
old project: a wiki encyclopedia designed for and partly maintained by
children.
The idea of a equivalent of Wikipedia for children was discussed in
particular in 2005-2006 on this page :
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikikids
Although it had no continuation as a Wikimedia project, wikis with such
a feature were launched first in Dutch: WikiKids
http://wikikids.wiki.kennisnet.nl ; in french a few month later: Vikidia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vikidia ( http://fr.vikidia.org/ ) and then
in Spanish ( http://es.vikidia.org ) for 8-13 years old children. I
opened Vikidia.
WikiKids.nl and Vikidia in French are doing well and are quite alike in
size and activity, they are both 5 years old now, whereas Vikidia in
Spanish doesn't make it so well. (If you are Spanish speaker or if you
know people that would be interested in it, please tell them about this
wiki !)
On Vikidia in French, we currently have a guest-book opened, and the
comments left on it
http://fr.vikidia.org/wiki/Vikidia:Livre_d%27or/Automne_2011 are quite
encouraging (Google translation: http://bit.ly/vfPP4m ). Children say
they appreciate the articles to be more readable for them than on
Wikipedia, their main reserve being that some article are not developed
enough, or that there isn't articles on every subject they would like to
know about... They clearly expect (and claim) some substantial content,
though it has to be easier than the Wikipedia's content.
We have yet a bit more than 10,500 articles in Vikidia in French, and
about 250,000 unique visitors a month.
This "Wikikids" question was mentioned again in the Wikimedia scope one
year ago firstly on this mailing list, and on the 2010 Wikimedia Study
of Controversial Content there:
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/2010_Wikimedia_Study_of_Controversial_Content:_Part_Two#Recommendations:_Controversial_Text:
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Recommendations: Controversial Text
Because of the considerations outlined above, our recommendations
surrounding text in WMF projects are the following:
It is recommended:
(...)
3. That, however, the Foundation investigate the creation of a
“WikiJunior” version of the Wikipedias, aimed at children under the age
of 12, either as a stand-alone project or in partnership with existing
and appropriate educational institutions.
Explanations:
(...)
Recommendations 2 and 3
(...) Much more successful, in our opinion, is a project specifically
targeted to children, and to the quite different needs of children in
different age groups. Some projects of this nature have already been
begun in the WikiJunior section of WikiBooks, but it is our feeling that
the scope of such a venture might necessitate the formation of
partnerships with institutions who have experience and resources already
devoted to this area.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
I of course agree, except on those points :
* /"a project specifically targeted to children, and to the quite
different needs of children in different age groups"/ I would warn
against the idea of dividing the content for age group as restricted as
each year of age, following the pattern of school class. That point
could be expounded.
* /"the scope of such a venture might necessitate the formation of
partnerships with institutions who have experience and resources already
devoted to this area."/ Thats quite a conservative point of view, kind
of those that, if followed by Wikipedia, wouldn't have permit its
developpment. I mean that in such a project, one should try to
communicate with institutions, publicize what they do, share some points
of view, competence and so on, but he shouldn't wait for those
institutions as if they would have to approuve the project and its
methods, as if only them could tell what is good for the project, since
it deals with children.
Another feature of WikiKids/Vikidia is of course that it let children be
involved in building the content, and does not "only" aim to produce and
offer content for children, for the same benefits that you can find in
Wikipedia-editing workshops for students. There is both some school
projects and volunteer (and often enthusiastic) children editing on
Vikidia along with teenagers, students and adult writers.
This project is not the same as Wikijunior. It is a Wikipedia-like
project, which Wikijunior isn't.
I do have in mind that there is Simple English Wikipedia, whom no other
equivalent have been created in any other language. I guess that it
would make less easy to create a wikikids in english, as it would be
partly similar to simple. I would also say that the fact that this wiki
is not so big and hasn't been created in other language may show that
its aim would not be so clear, mobilizing and justifying. By the way, on
Vikidia, we do hope to be usefull not only to children but to people of
any age that would like a simple approach of a subject, or a shorter one
than on Wikipedia. We beleive that if its content were not relevant to
older people, it wouldn't be good either for children.
Another thought, one may even link this projet with an article of the
convention on the Rights of the Child
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convention_on_the_Rights_of_the_Child which
is the following:
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Article 13 http://www2.ohchr.org/english/law/crc.htm#art13
1. The child shall have the right to freedom of expression; this right
shall include freedom to seek, receive *and impart* information and
ideas of all kinds, regardless of frontiers, either orally, in writing
or in print, in the form of art, or through any other media of the
child's choice.
2. The exercise of this right may be subject to certain restrictions,
but these shall only be such as are provided by law and are necessary:
(a) For respect of the rights or reputations of others; or
(b) For the protection of national security or of public order (ordre
public), or of public health or morals.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm afraid that the main objection may be the opinion I can read on the
2010 discussion on this list, which is to assume that anything that
deals with children should be exclusively conducted by certified
professionnals, and thus can not be an open collaboration project. Since
I can't see any legal grounds to it (do you need a licence to write a
book for children ?), I guess it has some sociological or cultural
grounds...
However, the point of this message is to address the "I don't think it
can work well" objection, associated with issues such as vandalism,
censorship, defining the appropriate content, children motivation and
ability to edit articles... since it does work well at least in two
language, where there is children, teenagers and adults working together
to better the wiki. And thousands of readers every days.
Previous discussions on this mailing list :
http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/foundation-l/2005-January/015108.html
January 2005
http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/foundation-l/2007-May/thread.html#30511
May 2007
http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/foundation-l/2010-June/thread.html#59456
June 2010
On the wikis :
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikikids
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Jimbo_Wales/Archive_86#New_Wikipedia_for_Kids
October 2011
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_(proposals)/Archive_79#WikiKids_-_Vikidia:_encyclopedia_for_children
October 2011
http://strategy.wikimedia.org/wiki/Proposal:Wikipedia_exclusively_for_Kids
http://strategy.wikimedia.org/wiki/Proposal:Wiki_for_kids
http://strategy.wikimedia.org/wiki/Proposal:Wikipedia_Junior
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_%28proposals%29/Archive_30#Wikipediakids
and July 2010
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_%28policy%29/Archive_78#NOTCENSORED_and_content_control
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_%28proposals%29/Archive_78#Summary_Pages_NOT_Childrens.27_Pages
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_%28proposals%29/Persistent_proposals#Abbreviated_Wikipedia_or_Childrens.27_Wikipedia
Greetings,
--
Mathias Damour
[[User:Astirmays]]
49 rue Carnot
74000 Annecy
France
00 (33)4 57 09 10 56
00 (33)6 27 13 65 51
mathias.damour at laposte.net
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