[Foundation-l] No rights to participate
Virgilio A. P. Machado
vam at fct.unl.pt
Wed May 25 18:59:12 UTC 2011
I'm sorry for not being as brilliant as you are,
but I have read my message over and over and can't find any "always" there.
I haven't made any mention of the number of
active editors. I don't know what you mean when
you say that "obviously there are some cases
where we can see things went badly." Nobody ever
said that about what you and others like you have done to me.
You can't miss "the step from that to " if
someone... can turn things from bad to worse for
you, they will"." Just retrace your own steps.
Please point an occasion, a message you haven't
use to take another stab at me. For what purpose? I know. Doesn't anybody here?
I never made any racist comments, and it saddened
me very deeply that you found it appropriate to
use that as an example, therefore associating me
with that kind of behavior. I do not use the kind
of language that you so proudly display, again in
a despicable attempt to associate me with the
kind of people who do. I wonder how such a nice
person such as yourself can resort to that kind
of behavior and be so welcome and so highly
regarded. That's why you can't be my buddy, pal,
friend and why you do have so much trouble
feeling any kind of empathy. "Nor do most people
here. That is [...] why other people aren't
agreeing with you very much either, or [standing up] to your support here."
My apologies to the list for the personal tone of
this message, but I believe things were getting a bit out of hand.
Virgilio A. P. Machado
At 09:47 25-05-2011, you wrote:
>Yeah. It's news for me. You really need to be
>careful not to replace "sometimes" by "always".
>We have a few hundreds of thousands of active
>editors over time. So obviously there are some
>cases where we can see things went badly. What
>I'm missing is the step from that to " if
>someone... can turn things from bad to worse for
>you, they will". A bit of a difference. This is
>the kind of logic that (in racists) goes: "A
>dark skinned man nudged me on the street and
>didn't say sorry" ----> "all dark skinned people
>are rude" ----> "Dark skinned people will fuck
>you over if they can". Sorry, but I don't buy
>it. Nor do most people here. That is possibly
>why other people aren't agreeing with you very
>much either, or jumping to your support here. FT2
>On Wed, May 25, 2011 at 6:30 AM, Virgilio A. P. Machado <vam at fct.unl.pt>wrote:
Oh my! That's news for you? Let's see. Just a
sample from firsthand experiences.
1) From Meta:
"The work on Meta was being done in an orderly
manner until the disruption provoked and caused
by those same people mentioned above. The user is
the same. Trouble only started after the
interference of the same people from the
Portuguese Wikipedia on Meta. Their votes can be
seen popping up on the RfA. There has never been
a single block on any other Wikimedia project
where these editors do not have any influence.
The obvious conclusion is that the hostile
behavior stays with that people, not this user."
2) From Wikimedia Outreach:
"Please edit those pages as though they were your
own wiki. Make yourself at home on the Outreach
wiki." Wrote Lennart. Wow! I was in awe. This
project and/or these guys had the right stuff."
"When I revisited Wikimedia Outreach, my user
page had been deleted, my own name suppressed
from my message and replaced by (Redacted)."
Later, my user page was restored with this quite
amazing summary: "restoring per request, it
appears this user intended to out himself,
removing personal address". It was decided that
"Apartado 313, 2826-801 Caparica" is my personal
address. Well I regret to have to let you know
that "Apartado 313, 2826-801 Caparica" is not my
"personal address". It's one of my many mailing
addresses. "Apartado" is the Portuguese word for
Post Office or P.O. Box, and I can assure you that I never lived there.
From the Portuguese Wikipedia:
Em engenharia, quando a obra não é executada de
acordo com o projecto é um caso sério. Na
Wikipédia chama-se «ajudar». «Em Roma, sê
Romano.» É assim. Uma pessoa põe o seu «espírito
criativo» a funcionar, é «ajudada» e pronto, lá
se foi o que planeou para o «galheiro». Já se
tinha agradecido, portanto, é tocar para diante e
esperar por melhores dias ou que o «ajudante» vá
de férias. Não há nada que um vulgar editor faça
que um atento administrador, burocrata e membro
do conselho de arbitragem não possa desfazer.
Nesta Wikipédia o que não falta são ajudas. Se
alguém encontrar por aí a definição de «período
para discutir o mérito da página», agradece-se desde já.
With all the details of the "help" I got to be
blocked for the first time. Moral of the story:
I'm currently banned and my "helper" is King on
the Portuguese Wikipedia, a fine example of a "meritocracy."
Even in these modest examples, if you find
anything not verifiable, please let me know.
5) "Furthermore, if someone, under the false
pretenses of helping you can turn things from bad
to worse for you, they will. That's the name of
the game here." Another example:
"Instead of complaining, you might like to notice
how your own attitudes lead to fairly predictable
results, and a genuine, noticeable and enduring
change of them changes the results." FT2
"That does not mean that there are not isolated
cases of injustice. Such users need to patiently
and persistently bring their situation to the attention of the community." Fred
Could some "consensus" be reached on this matter?
6) Fred Bauder might also be willing to fill you
with the details of how extremely helpful he has
been to me. Permission is granted to make public
all my e-mail messages to him, showing my appreciation for his good deeds.
Any further questions?
Virgilio A. P. Machado
At 05:14 25-05-2011, you wrote:
>Oh dear. This just lost a lot of respect (whatever respect is remaining).
>So if someone (anyone?) can cause another person problems, they will? I must
>remember that as the default expectation of society, or Wikipedia
>communities at least.
>Documented as being that extreme by reliable sources no less.
>Instead of complaining, you might like to notice how your own attitudes lead
>to fairly predictable results, and a genuine, noticeable and enduring change
>of them changes the results.
>On Wed, May 25, 2011 at 4:34 AM, Virgilio A. P.
Machado <vam at fct.unl.pt>wrote:
> > Furthermore, if someone, under the false pretenses of helping you can
> > turn things from bad to worse for you, they will. That's the name of
> > the game here, as it has been extensively documented on reliable
> > sources, which makes this statement verifiable, as required.
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