[Foundation-l] Oral Citations project: People are Knowledge

Wed Jul 27 20:40:09 UTC 2011

Yes, Achal, i was listening to them right now. And reading the Meta 
page. My question is about the transcription. Should we use Wikisource 
(because it is an authoral work) or Wikinews (because it's an interview) 
for the written version? Or should we cite the audio file directly?

I'm asking this because Wikinews can maybe be reliable [1] enough. It 
has a process for original reports [2] and also for accredited 
contributors. [3] With the transcription in Wikinews, following these 
policies, we can assume we are using a neutral source, and therefore we 
can use news citations ({{cite news}}, for instance, or a specific one). 
This is what we would do if we were using any interview in some news 
magazine available on internet as a source for Wikipedia, isn't?

We can also develop something similar for Wikisource (which is already 
used for transcriptions, in general). What do you think?

Well, maybe the better place for that is Meta talk page.[4]

Castelo

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:SOURCES#Reliable_sources
[2] http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Wikinews:Original_reporting
[3] http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Wikinews:Accreditation_policy
[4] http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Research_talk:Oral_Citations

Em 27/07/2011 16:42, Achal Prabhala escreveu:
> Dear Castelo,
>
> On Thursday 28 July 2011 12:25 AM, CasteloBranco wrote:
>> Tom,
>>
>> The fundamental difference in our views is that you talk about
>> translation, and i'm talking about another thing. The projects are not
>> bare translations of another language version (let's say, the English
>> version). Every project (en.wiki, pt.wiki, eo.wiki) has its own
>> community, which is not a group of translators. They produce the
>> articles that are interesting for them, and write in a style which is
>> neutral for its community. Maybe the result wouldn't be the same for
>> another project, and not because i say it, but simply because these
>> things take place in parallel. What i said is that the result of a
>> discussion on an article in a project doesn't apply for the other
>> projects, so the same article can have a version deleted in a project
>> and featured in another.  The choice itself of articles which are
>> considered "encyclopedic" enough to be kept may vary a lot from
>> community to community.
>>
>> About using English as the "transfer language", well... the knowledge
>> already exists in another language, the interviews are recorded in
>> native languages. Why don't we use the original language as a source? Or
>> shall we ask people to make those oral citations in English, just
>> because it "is the predominantly spoken language of Wikimedia"? What if
>> those people can't speak English? Should they learn it first, to have
>> those oral citations published? It doesn't seem very reasonable.
>>
>> I think this is a very interesting project, in order to improve quality
>> *specially* for other projects than en.wiki, but also - why not? - in
>> en.wiki. "Specially" because the subject of those citations are surely
>> interesting for those people, but maybe not for another ones.  For now,
>> this is hard because of the lack of written sources, but with the Oral
>> Citations projects, this can more frequently happen.
>>
>> One question: with the videos uploaded to Wikimedia Commons, will the
>> transcriptions be made on the respectives Wikisources (in Zulu, Swahili,
>> Malagasy, etc.) with translations to the other versions? Or should we
>> use the Wikinews, once they are interviews?
> We currently have several audio interviews up on commons. The Sepedi
> interviews (from South Africa) are simultaneously translated in the
> audio to English, so you should be able to understand them. The
> Malayalam and Hindi interviews are in those languages only, so harder
> for you to understand.
>
> We are working on transcripts, in each of the three languages + English,
> for all these audio files, but that will take some time (it is on our
> to-do list). Once they are done, perhaps you can make more sense of them.
>
> For the moment, here are the files if you wish to check them out:
>
> Sepedi:
> http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:PeopleAreKnowledge_Kgati_Interview1.ogg
> http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:PeopleAreKnowledge_Kgati_Interview2.ogg
> http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:PeopleAreKnowledge_Kgati_Interview3.ogg
> http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:PeopleAreKnowledge_Mogkope_Interview1.ogg
> http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:PeopleAreKnowledge_Mogkope_Interview2.ogg
> http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:PeopleAreKnowledge_Mokgope_Interview3.ogg
> http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:PeopleAreKnowledge_Mokgope_Interview4.ogg
> http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:PeopleAreKnowledge_Mopani-Worms-Recipe_Interview1.ogg
> http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:PeopleAreKnowledge_Tsere_tsere_Interview1.ogg
> http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:PeopleAreKnowledge_Tsere_tsere_Interview2.ogg
> http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:PeopleAreKnowledge_Tsere_tsere_Interview3.ogg
>
>
> Malayalam:
> http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:PeopleAreKnowledge_Dabba-Kali_Interview1.ogg
> http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:PeopleAreKnowledge_Neeliyar-Bhagavathi_%28Theyyam%29_Interview1.ogg
> http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:PeopleAreKnowledge_Neeliyar-Bhagavathi_%28Theyyam%29_Interview2.ogg
> http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:PeopleAreKnowledge_Neeliyar-Bhagavathi_%28Theyyam%29_Interview3.ogg
>
>
> Hindi:
> http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:PeopleAreKnowledge_Gillidanda_Interview1.ogg
> http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:PeopleAreKnowledge_Sur_Interview1.ogg
> http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:PeopleAreKnowledge_Sur_Interview2.ogg
>
>
> Cheers,
> Achal
>> Castelo
>>
>> Em 27/07/2011 12:49, Thomas Morton escreveu:
>>>> How about Brazilian "caldo de sururu", which is missing on en.wiki (and
>>>> also
>>>> on pt.wiki)? It's surely a lack for pt.wiki, but maybe not for en.wiki,
>>>>
>>> Perhaps this is the fundamental difference in our views; because I consider
>>> that a lack on *any language Wikipedia* whether pt, en, de, fr etc....
>>>
>>>
>>>> On wikipedias, people doesn't look for other discussions (AfD) on the
>>>> same article in another language before deleting an article for lack of
>>>> notability. So you can expect that some valid unit of knowledge in one
>>>> language is not surely (or automatic) valid in another.
>>>>
>>> This is not so much a problem to be looked at from the perspective of "oh
>>> their just not interested in X cultural articles", but from the perspective
>>> of how to convince editors to accept a less Y-centric viewpoint and include
>>> articles of relevance to X culture. This idea needs directing at en.wiki
>>> certainly, and probably at other language Wiki's too (because they also tend
>>> to have centric-attitudes needing to be overcome).
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> And English is not that 'global lingua franca'.
>>> It is, though, the predominantly spoken language of *Wikimedia*, at the
>>> moment (and that is not likely to change soon). So as a transfer language it
>>> is often our best bet.
>>>
>>> The point I was trying to make is that to get the material translated into *as
>>> many languages* as possible it needs a path of least resistance - whereby
>>> you have the maximum amount of translators available to process material. If
>>> English is no good as a "common" language from which to work on that then,
>>> fine, lets consider other options!
>>>
>>> There is no ideal solution yet available where we can all use our own
>>> languages and still interact effectively - grumping about translation
>>> efforts in light of that doesn't seem very constructive...
>>>
>>> Tom
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