[Foundation-l] Subject: Re: Subject: Re: Vendetta?

Sat Dec 17 00:38:33 UTC 2011

Thank you all for your support. The editors involved stirred up the pot 
and learned something in the process. One of them had already been 
warned about deleting content just for the fun of it, so this was 
instructional for all.  In looking through the threads, one of them 
found one of my efforts, didn't like it and decided to traverse all the 
content to which I had contributed (thus the appearance of a "vendetta")

This did bring up some very important issues that we all need to consider:
1. The recent past is also historically important. Events that occurred 
less than 20 years ago in real time are already as remote in Internet 
time as the times of the first Pharoahs of Egypt in real time.
2. We are already so used to online access to everything that the 
concept of actually going to a library and digging through old 
newspapers or memorabilia is alien to the young.
3. Efforts to preserve Silicon Valley's recent past by the Computer 
History Museum, the Intel Museum, the Tech Museum, the now defunct Ampex 
Museum, the Perham Collection at History San Jose (originally the 
Foothill College Electronics Museum) and others need the kind of online 
support that WP provides.  WP contributors can help create a legacy for 
coming generations by citing these resources, performing research using 
their collections and writing commentary.
4. Many of us still have original documents from events in the recent 
past. How can these be preserved so future historians will have source 
material?
5. Many other locations in the world have  had similar social changes - 
how about a WM project that seeks to capture the pase before it vanishes 
completely?
6. The captured past is already being lost by preservationists. I was 
involved in an episodic performance arts web site launched in 1995 that 
was included in the very first capture of the Internet by archives.org - 
That capture has already vanished! (later ones are still present).

On 12/16/2011 3:34 PM, foundation-l-request at lists.wikimedia.org wrote:
> Message: 4
> Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2011 11:44:16 -0700 (MST)
> From: "Fred Bauder"<fredbaud at fairpoint.net>
> Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] Subject: Re:  Vendetta?
> To: "Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List"
> 	<foundation-l at lists.wikimedia.org>
> Message-ID:
> 	<42740.66.243.192.69.1323974656.squirrel at webmail.fairpoint.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1
>
>> >  It isn't so much about having my stuff edited as it is that there seems
>> >  to be a mindset among en.wp editors that stuff needs to be deleted
>> >  unless they personally think it is important. We have a virtually
>> >  infinite space in which to write and add to the body of knowledge, so
>> >  why act as though it needs to be made smaller by applying some arbitrary
>> >  criterion?
>> >
>> >  I do not have that much free time to be arguing over trivialities - I'm
>> >  trying to record history as it has happened from my perspective. If you
>> >  don't like my objectivity then go do your own research and do some
>> >  editing - don't go for a 1984 style darconian rewrite/deletion.
>> >
>> >  Right now I'm spending all my free time wrestling with the article on
>> >  "light bulb sockets", which I did not originate. It is difficult to talk
>> >  about the sockets without bringing in all sorts of technical reasons why
>> >  they are the way they are. I didn't throw out the originator's material
>> >  - I've expanded it based on my experiences in the theatrical lighting
>> >  industry. I'm sure someone will eventually want to edit the material and
>> >  take the time to organize it a bit more. That is ok - it is what
>> >  collaboration is all about.
> Our criteria are not arbitrary: notability is established by information
> published in generally reliable sources, see Wikipedia:Notability
>
> "history as it has happened from my perspective" sounds like original
> research.
>
> With respect to light bulb sockets one imagines there is a specialized
> literature, and many patents...
>
> Fred
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2011 14:04:48 -0500
> From: The Cunctator<cunctator at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] Subject: Re: Vendetta?
> To:fredbaud at fairpoint.net, 	Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List
> 	<foundation-l at lists.wikimedia.org>
> Message-ID:
> 	<CACOqVVv9k3ycrTkWeb76=y9oX1ZOk-+9dj=x0Tj9UYAKfeqLYQ at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> In other words, Wikipedia does not have space for what you find
> interesting. Sorry.
>
> On 12/15/11, Fred Bauder<fredbaud at fairpoint.net>  wrote:
>>> >>  It isn't so much about having my stuff edited as it is that there seems
>>> >>  to be a mindset among en.wp editors that stuff needs to be deleted
>>> >>  unless they personally think it is important. We have a virtually
>>> >>  infinite space in which to write and add to the body of knowledge, so
>>> >>  why act as though it needs to be made smaller by applying some arbitrary
>>> >>  criterion?
>>> >>
>>> >>  I do not have that much free time to be arguing over trivialities - I'm
>>> >>  trying to record history as it has happened from my perspective. If you
>>> >>  don't like my objectivity then go do your own research and do some
>>> >>  editing - don't go for a 1984 style darconian rewrite/deletion.
>>> >>
>>> >>  Right now I'm spending all my free time wrestling with the article on
>>> >>  "light bulb sockets", which I did not originate. It is difficult to talk
>>> >>  about the sockets without bringing in all sorts of technical reasons why
>>> >>  they are the way they are. I didn't throw out the originator's material
>>> >>  - I've expanded it based on my experiences in the theatrical lighting
>>> >>  industry. I'm sure someone will eventually want to edit the material and
>>> >>  take the time to organize it a bit more. That is ok - it is what
>>> >>  collaboration is all about.
>> >
>> >  Our criteria are not arbitrary: notability is established by information
>> >  published in generally reliable sources, see Wikipedia:Notability
>> >
>> >  "history as it has happened from my perspective" sounds like original
>> >  research.
>> >
>> >  With respect to light bulb sockets one imagines there is a specialized
>> >  literature, and many patents...
>> >
>> >  Fred
>> >
>> >
>> >  _______________________________________________
>> >  foundation-l mailing list
>> >  foundation-l at lists.wikimedia.org
>> >  Unsubscribe:https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2011 12:41:13 -0700 (MST)
> From: "Fred Bauder"<fredbaud at fairpoint.net>
> Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] Subject: Re: Vendetta?
> To:foundation-l at lists.wikimedia.org
> Message-ID:
> 	<48582.66.243.192.69.1323978073.squirrel at webmail.fairpoint.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1
>
>> >  In other words, Wikipedia does not have space for what you find
>> >  interesting. Sorry.
> A summary of generally accepted knowledge is a foundation for creative
> new information. Wikipedia is a tool, a tool meant to be used and
> transcended.
>
> Fred
>
>