[Foundation-l] Chapters

[Theo10011]

On Mon, Aug 29, 2011 at 5:24 AM, Nathan <nawrich at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Sun, Aug 28, 2011 at 7:46 PM, Theo10011 <de10011 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Hi Mike
> >
> > I was merely pointing out from what I have seen from some of the other EU
> > chapters. I know as Non-profits they are obligated to comply with local
> > restrictions, whether those restriction are lax or stringent in
> comparison
> > is a matter of opinion but they do exist, is my point. I believe the best
> > people to address local laws and rules are local organizations, and not
> an
> > international one based in another country.
> >
> > I still see it as a matter of outlook when you say, "WMF is a U.S.
> > nonprofit
> > and must (at minimum) operate under the U.S. rules", so is a German,
> French
> > or a Swiss nonprofit, they must operate under the rules of their own
> > country. The rules might be more or less stringent but they all have to
> > comply in order to function. What confounds these requirements is when
> they
> > will also have to abide by US rules on top of their own national ones
> which
> > doesn't even address accountability to the community itself by either
> > party.
> >
> > I absolutely agree that it is not possible to come up with a single model
> > that fits all when you're dealing with International transfers of
> > charitable
> > funds (Even one way donations to WMF is more of a problem in "Global
> > south"). But removing all chapters from fundraising and not even giving
> > them
> > time to find a local solution, less than an year after they started,
> > doesn't
> > address those. The fundraiser is global, WMF is still collecting money
> from
> > all of these places, the majority of it might be from North America now,
> > but
> > in order for that to change or improve, local organizations have to be
> > given
> > freedom to decide what works for them. WMF would still prob. meet most of
> > its own targets. The issue with the grants model is it doesn't address
> most
> > of the issues, just removes local/chapter involvement from fund
> collection
> > (it limits their liability too). Money still goes from one country to
> > another, where a local organization might even already exist, capable of
> > being tax-deductible and locally responsible, then it comes back through
> a
> > grant from a US non-profit to the same non-profit every time.
> >
> > Wikimedia Deutschland was able to get to a point of being accountable
> > because it had the chance to do so itself. And that is my point, if we
> > stick
> > to our tenets we should assume Good faith and give them a chance to
> develop
> > what works for them, that will not happen with the grants model - there
> is
> > no need to. Local organization are the best fit for local issues.
> >
> > Theo
> >
> >
> >
> The whole idea of requiring non-US chapters to abide by US law is a
> strawman. No one has suggested, anywhere, that chapters need to follow U.S.
> law. What has been suggested, by the letter and by other comments, is that
> the WMF must follow US law, including in how it works with international
> organisations and donations that flow to them through the WMF.
>

Please read points 4 and 5.[1] Let me quote "This agreement is subject to
the laws of the United States of America and the State of California,
without regard to conflict of law rules", point 4 lays out the venue to be
San Francisco County, California for any litigation between the parties.

>
> Additionally, the WMF has self-imposed obligations beyond the law. In order
> to meet both its legal and other obligations, the WMF needs to be satisfied
> that funds are being managed and spent appropriately. This requires a WMF
> "one size fits all" general policy; WM DE, WM FR, WM CH etc. may be so
> sophisticated that assurances and disclosures to the WMF are unnecessary,
> but this can't be said for all chapters or chapters not yet established.


You are giving undue weight when you say "self-imposed obligations beyond
the law" but that is a matter of opinion. Actually I never argued that
"sophisticated" chapters don't require assurance and disclosure, they do,
and most of them do comply. There are however no requirements set forth by
WMF on what to comply on. There are 35+ chapters in total, only about 10 or
so have participated in fundraiser, this ability was rolled out to more
chapters, it still doesn't cover even half of them. I do believe that there
are local laws not permitting them from joining or their own choice or
infrastructure, either way, there is a development cycle that most chapters
go through before they join fundraising. This would prevent maturation and
effectively, put the current conditions in stasis.

Theo


[1]
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fundraising_2011/Chapters/Fundraising_Agreement#Legal_stuff