[Foundation-l] Self-determination of language versions in questions of skin?

[Mark Williamson]

Gerard,

I'm not sure such a condescending tone helps anybody. Also, I'm not
sure you've understood the intent of Martin's post. I'm under the
impression he'd only like to put off implementation of Vector in his
community until some problems get worked out, not permanently.
Besides, I think the question here is more fundamental than that.

-m.


On Wed, Jun 30, 2010 at 12:55 AM, Gerard Meijssen
<gerard.meijssen at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hoi,
> Please read what Tim wrote; he suggested for you to take time and not decide
> in a hurry to move away from vector. Effort will be concentrated on further
> development of vector and support for other skins will consequently be an
> afterthought. Expensive at that.
>
> When you choose to stick to monobook you will have more bugs and issues in
> the long run. As Roan indicated, some new features will just work some
> won't.
> Thanks,
>       GerardM
>
> On 30 June 2010 09:42, Martin Maurer <martinmaurer73 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, Jun 29, 2010 at 12:36 PM, Tim Starling <tstarling at wikimedia.org>
>> wrote:
>> > Editor communities do not have any fundamental rights to choose how
>> > MediaWiki is configured. However, the Foundation's goals are closely
>> > aligned with those of the communities, and the Foundation respects the
>> > central role communities play in the success of the projects, and so
>> > the Foundation has usually honoured such configuration requests.
>> >
>> > In this case, I would recommend a process of negotiation. Detail your
>> > concerns in Bugzilla, and give the developers time to respond to them.
>> > A premature vote on the issue would make compromise difficult. The
>> > Foundation has spent a lot of time and money on the Vector skin, and
>> > it would be a pity to see it thrown away.
>> >
>> > -- Tim Starling
>>
>> Thanks for your reply, Tim. No worries, in no case would Vector be
>> 'thrown away'. We are happy that Wikipedia offers not just one skin,
>> the default, but multiple skins, and Vector is certainly appreciated
>> as a new option in the list. Variety and choice in the look and feel
>> of the user interface is one of our great assets. I trust the
>> Foundation sees that the same way. We allow individual users to select
>> and customize their skin, and it might be in the same spirit to allow
>> individual wikis to choose and customize their default skin.
>>
>> Everyone is aware that a lot of time and money has gone into the
>> development of Vector. But none of that would be lost because a) there
>> are many Wikimedia projects in many language versions and Vector seems
>> to enjoy good support elsewhere (correct me if I'm wrong), b) Vector
>> remains a selectable skin in the preferences and many users use it
>> even when it's not the default skin. And surely we will get enough
>> feedback from all over the world to fix reported issues with Vector
>> even when single wiki communities reverted to (or decided to continue
>> to use) Monobook as the default skin for unregistered and newly
>> registered users. And at any time (say in a few months) it would be
>> easy to poll the community again to see which skin they prefer as
>> default now.
>>
>> In no scenario would it mean an end to Vector. It might even help
>> Vector being improved more quickly and extensively than it otherwise
>> would. And it would make a good impression if the Foundation granted
>> communities that choice, I think.
>>
>> Martin
>>
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