[Foundation-l] foundation-l Digest, Vol 81, Issue 54
Ramesh Prasad Kushwaha
yeske.group at gmail.com
Mon Dec 20 10:32:56 UTC 2010
Please send me only necessary massege. Thanke, by- yeske group
On 12/19/10, foundation-l-request at lists.wikimedia.org
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: How to contact the foundation's legal department?
> (Dan Rosenthal)
> 2. Re: How to contact the foundation's legal department?
> (Dan Rosenthal)
> 3. Re: How to contact the foundation's legal department?
> (Dan Rosenthal)
> 4. Re: How to contact the foundation's legal department?
> (Huib Laurens)
> 5. Re: How to contact the foundation's legal department?
> (Pedro Sanchez)
> 6. Re: How to contact the foundation's legal department?
> (Dan Rosenthal)
> 7. Re: How to contact the foundation's legal department?
> (Casey Brown)
> 8. Re: How to contact the foundation's legal department?
> (Dan Rosenthal)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sat, 18 Dec 2010 11:50:52 -0500
> From: Dan Rosenthal <swatjester at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] How to contact the foundation's legal
> department?
> To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List
> <foundation-l at lists.wikimedia.org>
> Message-ID: <8C7DD397-F412-43A2-9103-7F8575F57E53 at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
> Nemo,
>
> It is in fact correct. I can confirm this, because I am the primary person
> who screens those questions that come in to legal-en.
>
> Sue or Steven can correct me if I'm wrong on this, but I'm 99% sure that
> they misspoke -- legal at wikimedia has been a broken and useless address for
> long before I started working for the WMF.
>
> -Dan Rosenthal
> On Dec 18, 2010, at 5:13 AM, Federico Leva (Nemo) wrote:
>
>> Dan Rosenthal, 17/12/2010 01:01:
>>> If you have a legal question, best to send it to legal-en at wikimedia.org.
>>> It will be routed much faster and is much preferable.
>>
>> Please stop it: this is incorrect and perhaps you should at least double
>> check if someone says it's incorrect, especially after a WMF staffer
>> like Jon has confirmed so.
>> ?00:18 <+sgardner> If anyone (editors, chapters people, etc.) have legal
>> questions or problems, Steven's correct -- legal_AT_wikimedia.org is
>> where to send them?
>> (http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/IRC_office_hours/Office_hours_2010-10-27
>> ).
>> I hope this is enough.
>>
>> Nemo
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> foundation-l mailing list
>> foundation-l at lists.wikimedia.org
>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Sat, 18 Dec 2010 11:59:37 -0500
> From: Dan Rosenthal <swatjester at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] How to contact the foundation's legal
> department?
> To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List
> <foundation-l at lists.wikimedia.org>
> Message-ID: <E44661F2-541C-4C61-B617-A2F3E4548E2A at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> Jon,
>
> That must be a new change about legal at wikimedia.org, as the email didn't
> work as of a few weeks ago. I wasn't aware of that.
>
> However, from a policy perspective, we've always screened the email first at
> legal-en at wikimedia.org before sending it on to the GC. So in fact, that
> would still be the better place for it to go.
>
> -Dan
>
> On Dec 16, 2010, at 2:54 PM, Jon Davis wrote:
>
>> I've been taking care of these aliases, so to be clear: *
>> legal at wikimedia.org is a good and valid address to use*. It is an alias
>> that goes to the correct person(s), being our interim legal council. When
>> we get a new full time council, the alias will be repointed to them. So
>> legal at wikimedia.org will always be a good and safe bet.
>>
>> -Jon
>>
>> On Thu, Dec 16, 2010 at 07:28, Dan Rosenthal <swatjester at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> That email is incorrect.
>>>
>>> The direct email is legal-en at wikimedia.org.
>>>
>>> As far as I know, simply legal at wikimedia.org forwards to
>>> board at wikimedia.org or some other email address; either way, not where it
>>> needs to go.
>>>
>>> -Dan
>>> On Dec 16, 2010, at 7:19 AM, Huib Laurens wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hello,
>>>>
>>>> As far as I know: Legal at wikimedia.org
>>>>
>>>> Best,
>>>>
>>>> Huib
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> foundation-l mailing list
>>>> foundation-l at lists.wikimedia.org
>>>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> foundation-l mailing list
>>> foundation-l at lists.wikimedia.org
>>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Jon Davis
>> Office IT System & Network Administrator
>> Wikimedia Foundation
>> 415-839-6885
>> _______________________________________________
>> foundation-l mailing list
>> foundation-l at lists.wikimedia.org
>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Sat, 18 Dec 2010 12:04:26 -0500
> From: Dan Rosenthal <swatjester at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] How to contact the foundation's legal
> department?
> To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List
> <foundation-l at lists.wikimedia.org>
> Message-ID: <47A9CF88-CA59-429B-82AA-FE047117D51E at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
> Correction. I've just seen Jon's email about having fixed legal at .
>
> However, it is still preferable to send legal email to
> legal-en at wikimedia.org for a faster resolution and for ease on our end.
> Nobody has made the OTRS team (especially the legal team) aware of any
> policy changes on that end, so if something major has changed without
> telling us, someone's got some explaining to do.
>
> -Dan
>
>
> On Dec 18, 2010, at 5:13 AM, Federico Leva (Nemo) wrote:
>
>> Dan Rosenthal, 17/12/2010 01:01:
>>> If you have a legal question, best to send it to legal-en at wikimedia.org.
>>> It will be routed much faster and is much preferable.
>>
>> Please stop it: this is incorrect and perhaps you should at least double
>> check if someone says it's incorrect, especially after a WMF staffer
>> like Jon has confirmed so.
>> ?00:18 <+sgardner> If anyone (editors, chapters people, etc.) have legal
>> questions or problems, Steven's correct -- legal_AT_wikimedia.org is
>> where to send them?
>> (http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/IRC_office_hours/Office_hours_2010-10-27
>> ).
>> I hope this is enough.
>>
>> Nemo
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> foundation-l mailing list
>> foundation-l at lists.wikimedia.org
>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Sat, 18 Dec 2010 18:21:10 +0100
> From: Huib Laurens <sterkebak at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] How to contact the foundation's legal
> department?
> To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List
> <foundation-l at lists.wikimedia.org>
> Message-ID:
> <AANLkTi=2VBivnKDcZ5XYv4BMo-drcG1nVx=O0qG0dd=7 at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Why are you saying the staff answer is wrong? If staff says use
> legal at wikimedia.org why are you changing it?
>
> Best,
>
> Huib
>
> 2010/12/18 Dan Rosenthal <swatjester at gmail.com>
>
>> Correction. I've just seen Jon's email about having fixed legal at .
>>
>> However, it is still preferable to send legal email to
>> legal-en at wikimedia.org for a faster resolution and for ease on our end.
>> Nobody has made the OTRS team (especially the legal team) aware of any
>> policy changes on that end, so if something major has changed without
>> telling us, someone's got some explaining to do.
>>
>> -Dan
>>
>>
>> On Dec 18, 2010, at 5:13 AM, Federico Leva (Nemo) wrote:
>>
>> > Dan Rosenthal, 17/12/2010 01:01:
>> >> If you have a legal question, best to send it to
>> >> legal-en at wikimedia.org.
>> It will be routed much faster and is much preferable.
>> >
>> > Please stop it: this is incorrect and perhaps you should at least double
>> > check if someone says it's incorrect, especially after a WMF staffer
>> > like Jon has confirmed so.
>> > ?00:18 <+sgardner> If anyone (editors, chapters people, etc.) have legal
>> > questions or problems, Steven's correct -- legal_AT_wikimedia.org is
>> > where to send them?
>> > (http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/IRC_office_hours/Office_hours_2010-10-27).
>> > I hope this is enough.
>> >
>> > Nemo
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > foundation-l mailing list
>> > foundation-l at lists.wikimedia.org
>> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> foundation-l mailing list
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>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Regards,
> Huib "Abigor" Laurens
>
>
>
> Support Free Knowledge: http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Donate
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Sat, 18 Dec 2010 11:22:49 -0600
> From: Pedro Sanchez <pdsanchez at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] How to contact the foundation's legal
> department?
> To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List
> <foundation-l at lists.wikimedia.org>
> Message-ID:
> <AANLkTi=UvXh5mdpDnci9f6ZLoj+jmWAEe2o1PjH3PxR9 at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> On Sat, Dec 18, 2010 at 11:21 AM, Huib Laurens <sterkebak at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Why are you saying the staff answer is wrong? If staff says use
>> legal at wikimedia.org why are you changing it?
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Huib
>>
>>
>
> wasn't legal-en@ about english queries?
>
> in any case, it makes more sense to have legal@ for a *foundation*
> contact, and then have legal-en as a subqueue for english wikipedia
> (and related projects)
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Sat, 18 Dec 2010 12:38:37 -0500
> From: Dan Rosenthal <swatjester at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] How to contact the foundation's legal
> department?
> To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List
> <foundation-l at lists.wikimedia.org>
> Message-ID: <8E73F7FD-0E3C-43B3-A0C8-627D036567E9 at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> Pedro-
>
> Correct, it's just set up wrong on OTRS. Right now Legal@ is not even an
> OTRS email address. If it were, we could then structure it so the languages
> were subqueues. But that'd require legal@ becoming an OTRS email address.
>
> Huib - The staff (myself and Jon) are saying two different, contradictory
> things. We are trying to figure out if this is because of an undiscussed
> change of policy, or because Jon misspoke. It is of major concern, because
> if all legal emails are now going directly to the interim GC, then what is
> the point of having a legal queue for OTRS? But none of this was ever
> discussed with us, making me think that it is more likely just a mistake.
> The policy as long as I've been answering emails for the legal queue (and to
> be clear, it was still the policy when I started working full time for the
> foundation and at a meeting about a month ago it was still the policy) was
> that legal emails were to go through OTRS, where they would be routed into
> the legal queue (more accurately, the legal-en queue. We also have a very
> full legal-it subqueue and some specific trademark subqueues.) Those emails
> would then be screened by the OTRS legal volunteers, and some would be
> answered or weeded out there. The more important ones would be forwarded on
> to the General Counsel (or now, Interim General Counsel). Why would it make
> sense at all to get rid of the screening on OTRS, without discussion with
> the OTRS team, and suddenly route ALL emails directly to the Interim General
> Counsel. Does that make any logical sense? Again, this is why I think that
> there has been a mistake somewhere.
>
> We're emailing internally to figure out what the right answer is.
>
> -Dan
>
> (PS: this is my personal account, my staff account is not subscribed to
> foundation-l).
>
>
> On Dec 18, 2010, at 12:22 PM, Pedro Sanchez wrote:
>
>> On Sat, Dec 18, 2010 at 11:21 AM, Huib Laurens <sterkebak at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>> Why are you saying the staff answer is wrong? If staff says use
>>> legal at wikimedia.org why are you changing it?
>>>
>>> Best,
>>>
>>> Huib
>>>
>>>
>>
>> wasn't legal-en@ about english queries?
>>
>> in any case, it makes more sense to have legal@ for a *foundation*
>> contact, and then have legal-en as a subqueue for english wikipedia
>> (and related projects)
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> foundation-l mailing list
>> foundation-l at lists.wikimedia.org
>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Sat, 18 Dec 2010 14:24:10 -0500
> From: Casey Brown <lists at caseybrown.org>
> Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] How to contact the foundation's legal
> department?
> To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List
> <foundation-l at lists.wikimedia.org>
> Message-ID:
> <AANLkTi=tfuus49_irDAsNDY-9n1pFHEvgF07ZbcdvYQB at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> On Sat, Dec 18, 2010 at 5:13 AM, Federico Leva (Nemo)
> <nemowiki at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Please stop it: this is incorrect and perhaps you should at least double
>> check if someone says it's incorrect, especially after a WMF staffer
>> like Jon has confirmed so.
>
> On Sat, Dec 18, 2010 at 12:21 PM, Huib Laurens <sterkebak at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Why are you saying the staff answer is wrong? If staff says use
>> legal at wikimedia.org why are you changing it?
>
> Wow, you guys need to stop being so accusatory and rude; please stop
> assuming bad faith. No one's calling anyone a liar and they're both
> actually right, but in different ways.
>
> Dan's working with the Foundation for the fundraiser (so he's a
> "staffer" too), was an early legal intern, and has manned the legal
> queue on OTRS for years. Jon is a relatively new staffer with Office
> IT who's been helping cleanup e-mail addresses, aliases, and
> everything else related to Office IT.
>
> Stated simply, Jon was giving a *technical* answer, while Dan was
> giving a more *procedural* and policy-based answer.
>
> Here's the full story/background, as far as I know:
>
> Traditionally, we never really published a "legal" address. All
> complaints/issues were directed to the general Wikimedia contact
> address (info at wikimedia), which leads to OTRS. These complaints were
> then later sorted to their proper destination: info-en, another
> language queue, out to a staff member, to the legal queue, etc.
> Tickets needing legal team attention, like from real lawyers talking
> about litigation, went to the legal queue. Since the legal queue/team
> is quite small and most people do not actually need to talk to them,
> we never publicized the direct address to the legal queue... this is
> the legal-en@ address that Dan's talking about.
>
> More recently, a "legal@" alias has been created which goes straight
> to the current/interim General Counsel. I would assume that the
> reason this was created was because the Foundation has started using
> aliases a lot more. They probably didn't realize that we
> intentionally didn't make that address since most people didn't
> actually *need* the GC... or they did realize that, but decided it
> wouldn't be an issue anymore and decided that an alias would be a good
> idea anyway. :-)
>
> As Dan says, they'll need to figure out internally how mail should be
> redirected properly and how to make the best use of both the legal
> team and the interim GC's times. However, I wanted to make it clear
> that neither of them is really "wrong" or calling each other a liar.
> :-)
>
> --
> Casey Brown
> Cbrown1023
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Sat, 18 Dec 2010 14:38:40 -0500
> From: Dan Rosenthal <swatjester at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] How to contact the foundation's legal
> department?
> To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List
> <foundation-l at lists.wikimedia.org>
> Message-ID: <79CAEDFE-C8D4-4725-83B9-92A5142F2799 at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> Kibble, you never cease to amaze. Much <3. That's a great summary.
>
> -Dan
> On Dec 18, 2010, at 2:24 PM, Casey Brown wrote:
>
>> On Sat, Dec 18, 2010 at 5:13 AM, Federico Leva (Nemo)
>> <nemowiki at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Please stop it: this is incorrect and perhaps you should at least double
>>> check if someone says it's incorrect, especially after a WMF staffer
>>> like Jon has confirmed so.
>>
>> On Sat, Dec 18, 2010 at 12:21 PM, Huib Laurens <sterkebak at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>> Why are you saying the staff answer is wrong? If staff says use
>>> legal at wikimedia.org why are you changing it?
>>
>> Wow, you guys need to stop being so accusatory and rude; please stop
>> assuming bad faith. No one's calling anyone a liar and they're both
>> actually right, but in different ways.
>>
>> Dan's working with the Foundation for the fundraiser (so he's a
>> "staffer" too), was an early legal intern, and has manned the legal
>> queue on OTRS for years. Jon is a relatively new staffer with Office
>> IT who's been helping cleanup e-mail addresses, aliases, and
>> everything else related to Office IT.
>>
>> Stated simply, Jon was giving a *technical* answer, while Dan was
>> giving a more *procedural* and policy-based answer.
>>
>> Here's the full story/background, as far as I know:
>>
>> Traditionally, we never really published a "legal" address. All
>> complaints/issues were directed to the general Wikimedia contact
>> address (info at wikimedia), which leads to OTRS. These complaints were
>> then later sorted to their proper destination: info-en, another
>> language queue, out to a staff member, to the legal queue, etc.
>> Tickets needing legal team attention, like from real lawyers talking
>> about litigation, went to the legal queue. Since the legal queue/team
>> is quite small and most people do not actually need to talk to them,
>> we never publicized the direct address to the legal queue... this is
>> the legal-en@ address that Dan's talking about.
>>
>> More recently, a "legal@" alias has been created which goes straight
>> to the current/interim General Counsel. I would assume that the
>> reason this was created was because the Foundation has started using
>> aliases a lot more. They probably didn't realize that we
>> intentionally didn't make that address since most people didn't
>> actually *need* the GC... or they did realize that, but decided it
>> wouldn't be an issue anymore and decided that an alias would be a good
>> idea anyway. :-)
>>
>> As Dan says, they'll need to figure out internally how mail should be
>> redirected properly and how to make the best use of both the legal
>> team and the interim GC's times. However, I wanted to make it clear
>> that neither of them is really "wrong" or calling each other a liar.
>> :-)
>>
>> --
>> Casey Brown
>> Cbrown1023
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> foundation-l mailing list
>> foundation-l at lists.wikimedia.org
>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
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>
> End of foundation-l Digest, Vol 81, Issue 54
> ********************************************
>
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