[Foundation-l] Moderate this list

[effe iets anders]

I think we're talking about two groups of people and thinking here:
1) a group of people who have the principle "be bold" in their coat of arms
and love to say anything that comes to mind, no matter whether that might be
rude or not.
2) the people who see discussion more as a social process which is helped by
involving more people.

At an IRL meeting, one of these two groups sets the atmosphere. Either the
bold group can discuss loudly and the "social" people feel not at home and
they leave. Either the social people are nice and are disturbed by the rude
behaviour of the bold people, and tell them to be nice or shut up.

I tend to prefer the second group, since I sincerely believe that it is
important and even crucial to allow people to discuss, and allow many people
to discuss.

By telling that people who don't like the shouting even though they have a
delete button, by saying that people should just grow a thick skin, you
clearly say that you belong to the first group, and you are not interested
enough in their opinion to change your behaviour, even though you don't even
have a clou how big that group is and who's in it. I would even go as far as
to say I find that quite asocial and rude, and strikes me in the same way as
when I go to a cafe, people spit on me and shout at me, and if I complain
about that, I'm just told that I should go home and not bother, because that
is just the way they behave in that cafe...

Lodewijk

2009/9/11 Milos Rancic <millosh op gmail.com>

> Fully agreed with Ray: If someone doesn't know how to use delete
> button, then such person is not quite competent to use mailing lists.
> It reminds me on criticism toward wikis: Ah, someone may change my
> edits! I don't want to use that system anymore!
>
> On 2009-09-11, phoebe ayers <phoebe.wiki op gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 9:06 PM, Samuel Klein <meta.sj op gmail.com> wrote:
> >> This is effectively the only cross-project list at the moment.  And it
> >> is the canonical place to raise certain important issues and
> >> announcements.
> >>
> >> It has become popular to disparage this list as a poor place to have
> >> serious discussions about the foundation -- and to do the disparaging
> >> in private, where it can't possible lead to consensus to change this.
> >> Let's please stop doing that, and instead fix the list and its norms,
> >> or devise replacements and alternatives, so that we can all agree on
> >> where to have open, welcoming discussions -- that are comfortable for
> >> almost everyone, including non-native English speakers; that draw
> >> input from the core audience (people who care about Foundation
> >> issues).
> >>
> >> Please don't view this as a problem that someone else must identify
> >> and cope with.  If you are reading this list, you can help fix it.
> >
> > A reminder that there's ongoing discussion on meta about what to do.
> > Please add to it!
> > http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Improving_Foundation-l
> >
> > -- phoebe
> >
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>
> --
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>
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