[Foundation-l] A heads up

Wed Jul 15 21:13:44 UTC 2009

Hoi,
OK, there are *many* pictures of a marc'h on Commons... Now pretend that you
cannot find what this is in English. Try to find it on Commons.
Alternatively, you might want to look for a picture of a ლომი. There are
only 4,742,435 files at Commons, so just looking at the next random file
will help you at some stage.
Thanks,
     Gerard

2009/7/15 Geoffrey Plourde <geo.plrd at yahoo.com>

> This is pictures right? I fail to see how pictures aren't useable to
> everyone, as they are universal.
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Gerard Meijssen <gerard.meijssen at gmail.com>
> To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List <foundation-l at lists.wikimedia.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 12:23:36 PM
> Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] A heads up
>
> Hoi,
> The current practice is to upload large collections with a category that is
> specific to the material it came from. New categories are matched to
> existing categories and they are merged. So uploading them as they are IS
> nothing new. The problem is that when material is included that is not
> English, it means that it originates from outside of the Anglo Saxon world
> and thereby helps address the existing bias towards the anglo saxon world.
>
> While material in Dutch does not help the English, the Spanish, the
> Japanese, it only means that people that only speak Spanish or Japanse will
> find that to them Commons does not provide any service, add any value.
> Thanks,
>      GerardM
>
> 2009/7/15 Chad <innocentkiller at gmail.com>
>
> > On Wed, Jul 15, 2009 at 3:04 PM, Gerard
> > Meijssen<gerard.meijssen at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > Hoi,
> > > How does it help to find material in Commons when you do not know
> English
> > ??
> > > Practically it is nice that we spend money on improving the upload
> > facility
> > > of MediaWiki. In the end it makes no difference when you cannot find
> the
> > > images. Functionally Commons is useless as a consequence to all the
> > people
> > > who do not speak English.
> > >
> > > When you reply PLEASE remember what the Wikimedia Foundation is there
> > for..
> > > Thanks,
> > >     GerardM
> > >
> > > 2009/7/15 Chad <innocentkiller at gmail.com>
> > >
> > >> On Wed, Jul 15, 2009 at 2:34 PM, Gerard
> > >> Meijssen<gerard.meijssen at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >> > Hoi,
> > >> > Why should the term base be translated ? Is it not more important to
> > be
> > >> > gained by getting all this material in the public domain ??
> > >> >
> > >> > I do however agree with you. All the material that is about
> Indonesia
> > >> should
> > >> > be translated to Indonesian. For them it is very much the opening up
> > of
> > >> > material that is part of their cultural history. Translating it into
> > >> English
> > >> > does not make it easier for Indonesians to find this material.
> > >> > Thanks,
> > >> >      GerardM
> > >> >
> > >> > 2009/7/15 John at Darkstar <vacuum at jeb.no>
> > >> >
> > >> >> At least the term base should be translated.
> > >> >> John
> > >> >>
> > >> >> Gerard Meijssen wrote:
> > >> >> > Hoi,
> > >> >> > I have been in discussion with the Tropenmuseum in Amsterdam
> about
> > >> making
> > >> >> > their material available on Commons. The Tropenmuseum has an
> > important
> > >> >> > collection on the colonial past of the Netherlands and contains a
> > rich
> > >> >> > collection on Suriname and Indonesia. The initial talks are about
> > >> 100.000
> > >> >> > images.
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> > The annotations of this material is all in Dutch. It will come
> with
> > >> >> unique
> > >> >> > identifiers back to the physical object in the Tropenmuseum and
> it
> > >> will
> > >> >> come
> > >> >> > with the termbase for the images; this termbase is as I
> understand
> > it
> > >> the
> > >> >> > equivalent of our categories. Some of the material has a partial
> > >> >> translation
> > >> >> > in English and, this can be provided to us as well.
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> > The key issue I want to raise is that there are hundreds of
> museums
> > in
> > >> >> the
> > >> >> > Netherlands, Belgium and Suriname all using Dutch there are more
> > >> museums
> > >> >> in
> > >> >> > Germany, Austria, Switzerland, Lichtenstein who speak German ....
> > >> While
> > >> >> we
> > >> >> > aim to improve our front end to allow for easy uploads, we do not
> > >> provide
> > >> >> > language support. Language support will help people find pictures
> > in
> > >> >> their
> > >> >> > language and will help the matching of categories into other
> > >> languages.
> > >> >> > Thanks,
> > >> >> >       GerardM
> > >> >> > _______________________________________________
> > >> >> > foundation-l mailing list
> > >> >> > foundation-l at lists.wikimedia.org
> > >> >> > Unsubscribe:
> > >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
> > >> >> >
> > >> >>
> > >> >> _______________________________________________
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> > >> > _______________________________________________
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> > >> >
> > >>
> > >> There is certainly a value to having things in English. It aids
> > translation
> > >> into
> > >> more languages. It's a lot harder to find people who speak Dutch and
> > >> Spanish,
> > >> French and Russian or Greek and Japanese. You're more likely to find
> > people
> > >> who speak English in addition to their native tongue, which allows
> them
> > to
> > >> translate it.
> > >>
> > >> -Chad
> > >>
> > >> _______________________________________________
> > >> foundation-l mailing list
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> > >>
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> > >
> >
> > And when something is uploaded in Dutch, how do you expect this to
> > help Spanish speakers? Or Japanese speakers? When you translate
> > to English, you facilitate translation into other languages too. I'm not
> > saying translate to English and let it be, I'm saying translate it to
> > English to aid in retranslation.
> >
> > -Chad
> >
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> >
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