[Foundation-l] FW: [Wikinews-l] Increased incivility at wikinews [en] <warning: contains rant>

[Philippe|Wiki]

Marc, without denying or confirming there are problems with discourse  
at Wikinews (because I have no personal knowledge), I would posit that  
your messages about this topic to this list have been a little...  
terse.  Cary was proposing some perfectly valid thoughts (and money  
DOES have to do with this problem... who do you think pays the  
Foundation people that you want to swoop in from on high?  They don't  
work for beads, you know...) and you acted fairly aggressively towards  
him.

Slow down, take a deep breath, and think about detailing the issues  
specifically, rather than some broad sweeping statement.  Then, we as  
a list can start to think through what we - the volunteers who make up  
this particular list - can offer in the way of help (if anything).

I know you're frustrated.  I bet I would be too.  I'm just suggesting  
that maybe there's another way to handle this...


__________________
Philippe|Wiki
philippe.wiki at gmail.com

[[en:User:Philippe]]




On Feb 5, 2009, at 1:12 PM, Marc Riddell wrote:

>
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>> Marc Riddell wrote:
>>> When will you people finally acknowledge that there is something  
>>> terribly
>>> wrong with the deteriorating level of discourse occurring in the  
>>> Projects?
>>> And this trend is certainly not confined to Wikinews. Take a good,
>> objective
>>> look at some of the dialogue occurring on the English Wikipedia. The
>>> atmosphere is becoming angrier and more hostile by the day.
>>>
>>> And, Erik, when I broached this subject in a private email  
>>> conversation
>> with
>>> you, you never even acknowledged receipt of that email. What would  
>>> you have
>>> done if we were speaking to each other in person - stare at me in  
>>> silence?
>>> That, alone, speaks volumes.
>
> on 2/5/09 1:30 PM, Cary Bass at cary at wikimedia.org wrote:
>
>> First of all, Erik may or may not have received your email, and the
>> reasons he did or did not respond to you can be immense and varied.
>> You should not make assumptions based on a lack of communication by
>> anyone, staff or community member.
>
> This is an issue for Erik to respond to (or not); not for you to make
> excuses for him.
>>
>> Secondly, what gives you the impression that Foundation staff are  
>> able
>> to sweep in and make everyone behave; or furthermore, why should you
>> not assume that we've not already tried some way to encourage
>> conviviality and discourage attacks.
>
> Where? When?
>
>> I have personally found myself
>> in the predicament of trying to solve issues for people and getting  
>> my
>> head bitten off by the very people I was trying to help!
>
> This is not about solving specific issues for people; it is about  
> teaching
> them how to civilly and constructively solve their own. Learn the
> difference.
>
>> At least one
>> of those individuals resorted to calling me denigrating names on
>> lists cc'd to numerous folks, including coworkers, Jimmy Wales, and  
>> my
>> boss; and his fellow complainants did nothing to object.
>>
>> The Foundation, as successful as the last fundraiser went, remains to
>> having limited resources.
>
> Oh, please, Cary, money has nothing to do with what I am talking  
> about, and
> you should know it.
>
>> Our volunteering model is next to
>> impossible to define, given the enormity of our community.
>
> This is purely an excuse for your inaction.
>>
>> Discussions take place on IRC about the simple idea of removing admin
>> access to anyone who uses ugly or rude block messages. This idea is
>> met with huge opposition; by solid contributors.
>
> "Solid" (whatever that is) contributors are objecting to ruling out  
> "ugly or
> rude messages"!?! Time for a new definition of solidity.
>
>> You're asking
>> people to stop acting like people.
>
> No, I am asking that people work and communicate civilly and  
> constructively
> with one another so that important matters can be resolved.
>>
>> Perhaps we should follow the Wikinews discussion more closely...even
>> participate in it, rather than expanding it to include all of the
>> Foundation projects in one fell swoop. Given that the community is
>> much smaller there, a solution might take place that will result in
>> people being more proactive about reducing ugliness and being kinder
>> to one another and promoting an assumption of good faith.
>>
>> Maybe Wikinews can even come up with a model that can be adopted by
>> other projects.
>
> It is clear that the Wikinews Project HAS come up with a successful  
> model.
> The question is: are the other Projects even listening?
>
> Marc Riddell
>
>
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