[Foundation-l] FW: [Wikinews-l] Increased incivility at wikinews [en] <warning: contains rant>

[Marc Riddell]

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> Marc Riddell wrote:
>> When will you people finally acknowledge that there is something terribly
>> wrong with the deteriorating level of discourse occurring in the Projects?
>> And this trend is certainly not confined to Wikinews. Take a good,
> objective
>> look at some of the dialogue occurring on the English Wikipedia. The
>> atmosphere is becoming angrier and more hostile by the day.
>> 
>> And, Erik, when I broached this subject in a private email conversation
> with
>> you, you never even acknowledged receipt of that email. What would you have
>> done if we were speaking to each other in person - stare at me in silence?
>> That, alone, speaks volumes.

on 2/5/09 1:30 PM, Cary Bass at cary at wikimedia.org wrote:

> First of all, Erik may or may not have received your email, and the
> reasons he did or did not respond to you can be immense and varied.
> You should not make assumptions based on a lack of communication by
> anyone, staff or community member.

This is an issue for Erik to respond to (or not); not for you to make
excuses for him.
> 
> Secondly, what gives you the impression that Foundation staff are able
> to sweep in and make everyone behave; or furthermore, why should you
> not assume that we've not already tried some way to encourage
> conviviality and discourage attacks.

Where? When?

> I have personally found myself
> in the predicament of trying to solve issues for people and getting my
> head bitten off by the very people I was trying to help!

This is not about solving specific issues for people; it is about teaching
them how to civilly and constructively solve their own. Learn the
difference.

> At least one
> of those individuals resorted to calling me denigrating names on
> lists cc'd to numerous folks, including coworkers, Jimmy Wales, and my
> boss; and his fellow complainants did nothing to object.
> 
> The Foundation, as successful as the last fundraiser went, remains to
> having limited resources.

Oh, please, Cary, money has nothing to do with what I am talking about, and
you should know it.

> Our volunteering model is next to
> impossible to define, given the enormity of our community.

This is purely an excuse for your inaction.
> 
> Discussions take place on IRC about the simple idea of removing admin
> access to anyone who uses ugly or rude block messages. This idea is
> met with huge opposition; by solid contributors.

"Solid" (whatever that is) contributors are objecting to ruling out "ugly or
rude messages"!?! Time for a new definition of solidity.

> You're asking
> people to stop acting like people.

No, I am asking that people work and communicate civilly and constructively
with one another so that important matters can be resolved.
> 
> Perhaps we should follow the Wikinews discussion more closely...even
> participate in it, rather than expanding it to include all of the
> Foundation projects in one fell swoop. Given that the community is
> much smaller there, a solution might take place that will result in
> people being more proactive about reducing ugliness and being kinder
> to one another and promoting an assumption of good faith.
> 
> Maybe Wikinews can even come up with a model that can be adopted by
> other projects.

It is clear that the Wikinews Project HAS come up with a successful model.
The question is: are the other Projects even listening?

Marc Riddell