[Foundation-l] Signal languages Wikimedia projects

[Gerard Meijssen]

Hoi,
As you know copyright is not as relevant as license. SignWriting is
available under free licenses. SignWriting is older then any of the Free
licenses anyway, this was the reason why there was no mention at all about
licenses and copyright. What has always been abundantly clear was that
people were encouraged to use SignWriting. Currently there is no longer an
issue, all the necessary components are available under a Free license.

When people claim that deaf people are able to read and write in the
"dominant" language, they forget that this has never been a reason to deny
people their Wikipedia in their language. We do allow people who speak a
native American language their projects. Sign languages are as different
from the "dominant" language as native American languages are from Spanish,
Portuguese or English.

What is relevant to many of the languages that we support is, does a culture
exist that can be associated with the language as well. This is very much
the case with the Deaf communities. There are things like poetry in sign
language, poetry that cannot be translated in spoken language. When people
write in their own language they give a different perspective on the same
concepts. Different because you have to express it differently.
Thanks,
      GerardM

2008/11/23 Mark Williamson <node.ue at gmail.com>

> The whole situation has some very interesting questions.
>
> - Hasn't SW been copyrighted in the US?
> - Many people claim that all deaf are literate in dominate languages
> of their area, but while this is partially true (almost all deaf in,
> say, the US are functionally literate), it's also true that many
> people are much more proficient and understand their signed language
> better than the written form of any spoken language. There's more to
> that discussion, I think, though.
> - There are many alternative methods for writing signed languages.
> Most people who sign don't write it at all, however.
> - How will the current trend of parents of deaf and HoH children
> favoring cochlear implants affect the future of ASL? (This question is
> interesting, but has little impact on an American Sign Language
> Wikipedia in the short-term)
>
> In general, I have a positive view of the request.
>
> Mark
>
> 2008/11/23 Gerard Meijssen <gerard.meijssen at gmail.com>:
> > Hoi,
> > SignWriting is a script. Consequently what it produces is as faithful a
> > representation as other scripts like the Latin or the Cyrillic. The
> notion
> > that you can compare it to a constructed language is false as a
> consequence.
> > Many people who are deaf have not learned to read and write in their own
> > language. They have learned to struggle with languages that are totally
> > foreign to them as they are based on spoken language. There is an
> inherent
> > inability to learn our sound based languages, this is exactly why
> deafness
> > is considered to be a disability.
> >
> > It is true that many deaf people do not know how to write their own
> > language. It is because of the lack of of a script that the Deaf
> communities
> > have a problem retaining much of the vocabulary that goes out of fashion.
> It
> > is because of this that their culture is to be given to the next
> generation
> > by rote and consequently much is lost.
> >
> > The SignWriting community is steadily getting more attention. A school
> here,
> > a school there, interest from another country.. They have asked for a
> > Wikipedia and it is only for the technical reasons that we have not given
> > them "eligibility" status yet. These technical reasons are being
> overcome.
> > Thanks,
> >      GerardM
> >
> > 2008/11/23 Gregory Maxwell <gmaxwell at gmail.com>
> >
> >> On Sat, Nov 22, 2008 at 5:28 PM, Gerard Meijssen
> >> <gerard.meijssen at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> > Hoi,
> >> > The proposal is for ASL to be written in SignWriting. This has the
> added
> >> > benefit that whatever is actually written can also be edited in our
> wiki
> >> > style. The problem with video  is that you cannot change it and
> >> consequently
> >> > it is not really Wiki.
> >> >
> >> > Steve Slevinsky is working on an extension that will allow for the
> >> writing
> >> > of any sign languages using SignWriting. I understand that he is even
> >> > cosidering another skin.. This will allow for much of the user
> interface
> >> to
> >> > be localised.
> >>
> >> But SignWriting is not sign-language: Many people who are deaf and use
> >> ASL (and, I presume, other forms of sign language) are unaware of and
> >> have no interest in SignWriting as being deaf does not result in an
> >> inherit inability to communicate using more common written languages.
> >>
> >> As far as I am aware SignWriting characters do not occur in any
> >> standard character see, further complicating use.  I have no
> >> opposition to supporting SignWriting, but Wikis in SignWritten
> >> signlanguage probably should be regarded as any other conlang projects
> >> are, and certainly not regarded as an accessibility effort.
> >>
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