[Foundation-l] Concern for the safety of Wikimedians at Wikimania in Alex...

Oldak Quill oldakquill at gmail.com
Tue Mar 4 14:29:14 UTC 2008


On 04/03/2008, daniwo59 at aol.com <daniwo59 at aol.com> wrote:
> Just a quick comment here:
>
> I think the problem is that various issues are being conflated and  confused,
> so that each person participating has valid points, but they are  talking
> about different circumstances and therefore talking past one  another.
>
> 1. Respecting local customs: This is a given anywhere you travel, and  should
> be considered as such. For instance, when entering a mosque, you remove  your
> shoes. When having dinner with the queen, you do not burp at the end of the
> meal to show your satisfaction. Most of this is common courtesy. There are,
> however, some societies where accepted social norms would truly impinge on the
> freedom of Wikipedians. For example, I am hard pressed to believe that
> Wikimania  will be held in Saudi Arabia, where women are required to cover
> themselves in  what Westerners would consider a restrictive fashion, or where someone
> like  Florence would need a note from her husband or son to appear outside in
> public  alone. That said, Egypt is not, I repeat, is NOT, in any way like that.
> It is a  country whose economy is fueled by tourism, and they have seen
> Western women  before.
>
> 2. Respecting local laws: I am not going to discuss the Egyptian sodomy  laws
> per se, but suffice it to say that among Egypt's many tourists are many gay
> tourists, and I don't know of anyone arrested for that. In fact, it is harder
> to  get into the Cayman Islands if you are gay. That said, do not have sex
> with your  partner in midday in a bustling market. But hey, I would go so far as
> to suggest  the same behavior in Amsterdam.

Thank you for pointing out to gay Wikimedians that they cannot have
sex in public. Since sex with your partner at "midday in a bustling
market" is common custom throughout the Western world, this was a
productive and helpful thing to say.

According to the British Embassy in Cairo
(http://www.britishembassy.gov.uk/servlet/Front?pagename=OpenMarket/Xcelerate/ShowPage&c=Page&cid=1062157948289),
"homosexual acts in public are illegal and homosexuals have been
convicted for breaching laws on public decency". Obviously, sex would
be considered a "homosexual act", but what about kissing or holding
hands?

In 2002, the Egyptian government put 52 men on trial for being
homosexual (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/crossing_continents/1858469.stm).
According to the article the police tested one man for homosexuality
by telling him to take down his trousers. He was not wearing Egyptian
cotton underwear, which meant that he was gay. They tortured him for 3
days. Initially, they arrested another 8 non-nationals, but did not
sentence them to a jail term.

23 of the 52 were convicted and "sentenced to up to five years prison
with hard labour".

It is not a simple matter of not performing "homosexual acts" in
public. These 52 were arrested at a private party on a boat. The
article goes on to say "Meanwhile the arrests of alleged homosexuals
continue. They are unpredictable. While I was in Cairo I attended the
appeal hearing of a young man entrapped by the police over a gay
website. He had been convicted of distributing obscene material...
three years imprisonment with hard labour".

If I remember correctly, these concerns have been dismissed on this
list with suggestions that only Egyptian homosexuals are in danger
(i.e. not tourists). This is not true. In 2003, an Israeli tourist was
jailed for homosexuality in Egypt. The tourist wasn't arrested for
having sex at midday in a bustling market. He was entrapped by the
police when trying to meet local men using the internet. Thankfully,
he was released from jail after only a couple of weeks
(http://www.gaymiddleeast.com/news/article19.htm).

So it is not just Egyptians who are in danger, and it is not just
those who commit lude acts in public who are in danger. To requote the
BBC: "the arrests of alleged homosexuals continue. They are
unpredictable."

A translation of the relevant Egyptian Law 10/1961 is provided by
Human Rights Watch:
http://hrw.org/reports/2004/egypt0304/9.htm#_Toc63760431 . A
particularly interesting passage is article 9b (which might put
Wikimania organisers in legal-grey if a room is given to two men who
are known to be partners).

The sentence for breaking article 9 is a minimum jail term of 3
months. The next part, c, states: "Whoever habitually engages in
debauchery or prostitution" will be similarly punished.

I don't wish to keep nagging on about this, but I haven't seen any
response from the Foundation acknowledging that this is an issue or a
problem at all. The continuing objections of users such as Mark
Williamson and Dan Rosenthal seem to suggest that I am not the only
one who feels that my concerns haven't been acknowledged.

Telling people to not fuck in public isn't adequate.

-- 
Oldak Quill (oldakquill at gmail.com)



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