[Foundation-l] Baidupedia copyvio collections

[Ting Chen]

Hello Ray,

to be short, I fully agree with you.

Greetings
Ting

-------- Original-Nachricht --------
> Datum: Sat, 14 Jun 2008 14:42:54 -0700
> Von: Ray Saintonge <saintonge at telus.net>
> An: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List <foundation-l at lists.wikimedia.org>
> Betreff: Re: [Foundation-l] Baidupedia copyvio collections

> Ting Chen wrote:
> >> Datum: Fri, 13 Jun 2008 20:54:41 -0400
> >> Von: Dan Rosenthal <swatjester at gmail.com
> > 1) What Baidupedia is doing is wrong.
> >   
> > Ack
> >> 2) Because of the Great Firewall, taking down Baidupedia is a net 
> negative for us.
> >>     
> > That I don't agree. Fact is, we don't have the power to take it down,
> and we don't care if it is down or not. If Baidu is down or not doesn't have
> an influence on us. Baidu is not a mirror of Wikipedia. We have had contact
> with other agencies in China to build up a mirror (the foundation was
> informed about these contacts), but because of the issue of the GFW the
> contacts all run dead. We don't consider Baidu as a collaboration, we also don't
> consider them as a potential collaborator.
> >   
> The issue is one of free licensing.  Under GFDL they have every right to 
> use our material.  If they play by the rules we have the right to use 
> theirs.  They are not bound to follow NPOV on their site, because it's 
> their site.  Whether it's editorially sound to use their material is 
> quite a different question from having a legal right to use that 
> material.  Our efforts to set up a mirror in China have nothing to do 
> with Baidupedia.
> >> 3) We want to find a way to bring Baidupedia into compliance with the
> GFDL.
> >>     
> > That would be fine. But that would not happen. Baidu uses a very muddy
> copyright policy porpusely, this was confirmed from inofficial channel.
> >   
> 
> Bringing them into compliance may require that they move away from such 
> a muddy copyright policy.  It doesn't help to be pessimistic about our 
> prospects; that makes it difficult to look for possible solutions.
> >> 4) We also potentially want to use some of Baidupedia's content for
> ourselves too.
> >>     
> > No, never. Because every content on Baidu is potentially copyviod,
> contents from Baidu on Wikipedia is a kill-argument. Whenever I see that the
> content originate from Baidu it is for me a kill creteria.
> >   
> 
> That's a big leap between potentially copyvio and factually copyvio.  
> This argument looks highly prejudicial since it leaves no room to 
> consider the material on its own merits.  If their article has 
> significantly drawn on Wikipedia there may be implicit GFDL even if they 
> don't say so.  Also, drawing on their information and putting it in our 
> own words would not be a copyvio because ideas are not copyrightable.
> >> 5) Because Baidupedia is a collaborative site instead of a static  
> >> site, it faces different operational and legal implications than other 
> >> cases.
> >>     
> > Maybe in the future once a day. But now they don't see any neccesity to
> change their policy. To device a way to let them see the neccesity is maybe
> a method we should search for.
> 
> I think that that last point is exactly where we should be heading.  
> They may not now see any necessity to change policy; we just need to 
> find a convincing argument for change.
> 
> Ec
> 
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