[Foundation-l] Seeking clarification

[Gerard Meijssen]

Hoi,
I would turn it around, are the communities of the projects communicating
with the WMF? I would argue that there is a gaggle of people all talking
among each other making such a din that they are not heard over make so much
noise that the WMF is not heard. I would also argue that it is for the
people themselves to organise when and what they need, mindful of there
being a foundation that will have to approve of what they come up with,

Wikipedia predates Wikinews. Wikipedia did news before Wiknews existed. Much
of the relevance of Wikipedia is in their bringing background information to
the news. If Wikinews cannot handle this, tough. If it means that Wikinews
is a project that is a failure, tough. In the end it is a failure for the
people who promoted the idea of Wikinews, however I think there is plenty of
scope for Wikinews to hack it. But the Wikinewsies have to find their own
way, their own niche. So please move on.

Again, it is YOU that has to make things work. At best the WMF provides you
with a framework. It is you, the editor, the community that have to make
things work. The WMF provides the hammer a nail, it is you that has to hit
the nail on the head.

In conclusion, I could not disagree with you more.
Thanks,
      GerardM

On Jan 23, 2008 12:46 PM, Jason Safoutin <jason.safoutin at wikinewsie.org>
wrote:

>
> > Message: 1
> > Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 00:36:14 +0100
> > From: "Gerard Meijssen" <gerard.meijssen at gmail.com>
> > Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] Seeking clarification
> > To: "Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List"
> >       <foundation-l at lists.wikimedia.org>
> > Message-ID:
> >       <41a006820801221536k4cd7ba9ble15b4f9ea45a32c at mail.gmail.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
> >
> > Hoi,
> > Consider please what the WMF is, it is the organisation that makes our
> > projects possible. It does the hosting, it provides the framework that
> > allows our projects, our communities to thrive. It is however the
> projects,
> > the communities that make a project work or not. It is not for the
> > foundation to make a project work.
> No, but the foundation should assist and communicate with all WMF
> projects, which it does not.
> > When a wiki failed we killed them. When a
> > particular project does not have what it takes or its function is
> replaced
> > elsewhere, it is for its community to go on or go elsewhere. When
> Wikipedia
> > does better at news then Wikinews, it is for Wikinews to find its niche.
> > News and particularly background information to news has been shown one
> of
> > Wikipedias strong points. Asking Wikipedia not to do this is plain not
> > realistic. Cooperation between these projects may be realistic but it is
> not
> > assured.
> >
> It is realistic. Plain and simple: Wikipedia is an encyclopedia. If you
> want news on an encyclopedis, change it to "Wikipedia and news". Until
> thin, this creates a competition between Wikinews and Wikipedia, *not*
> collaboration.
> > When you indicate that the WMF has to help projects, I disagree.
> Projects
> > help themselves, the WMF may and can facilitate. It can do a lot of
> > networking for the projects but it is the projects and their communities
> > that will have to do the work. It is people that *do *that make the
> > difference. When a particular project does a different or a better job,
> > inside or outside the WMF framework, people will find it, recognise
> this.
> > The most important thing the WMF can do is facilitate, make sure that
> > connections between like minded projects exist. Help in mashing the data
> > that exists in so many places and make it gell together. Because THIS is
> > what the WMF is there for; providing people with information, not to
> save
> > projects at any cost.
> >
> Makes no difference if the foundation/board pays no attention to it
> projects, outside of Wikipedia. The foundation should help their
> projects, meet their *needs* whenever possible, not ignore them. I never
> said WMF has to save a project, but they should protect it them.
> > Many projects have started based on the Wiki concept outside of the WMF.
> > Many of them are as relevant or more relevant then WMF projects. They
> are
> > however not our competition, they share with us and are part of the Wiki
> > ecosystem. All these projects compete in a way and fill their niche. The
> > notion that the WMF should safeguard its projects from other projects is
> > self defeating; when projects lose their relevance inside or out, their
> > readers, their editors their community will evaporate and there is
> little
> > that an organisation can do about it.
> > Thanks,
> >      GerardM
> >
> Right. The ones *not* in competition are the ones that are not the same
> projects or similar to projects of WMF Wikieducator = Wikiverity and
> Encyclopedia of Life = Wikispecies.  Those IMHO are *direct* competition
> and both of which receive an endorsement by WMF. Again, WMF needs to
> endorse and think about their projects first and foremost. Period.
>
> Jason Safoutin (DragonFire1024)
>
>
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