[Foundation-l] Reply to Mark

[Ben Yates]

Also, you guys (I mean the foundation members) have been handling all
this pretty badly.  It should have been obvious from the moment
alexandria was chosen and a huge row erupted over gay safety in egypt
that this was an issue that would need continuing attention -- as in,
you need to honestly understand people's concerns* and look for
practical solutions.  A straightforward knowledge base mapping out
egyptian society, religion, politics and culture would be a good place
to start.

Seriously.  Do you not understand why swatjester's pissed off?  There
are protesters in s. egypt decrying "the jews".  If we had a better
understanding of egyptian culture, someone could say to him "look,
those protesters are at a conservative university, they don't
represent broader egyptian society".  (Or, conversely, maybe they do.
I don't know because nobody's researching.)  There's a major vacuum
here that needs to be filled with knowledge and advice.  Basically,
pull your socks up, get to work, and stop worrying about the way
threads play out on a bloody mailing list.  This is a problem you have
to fix with real actions, not debate.

Here's a recent in depth article about youth culture and islam in
egypt. http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/17/world/middleeast/17youth.html?scp=17&sq=egypt&st=nyt
It contains about 100 times more light than this discussion, and
everyone should read it.

* As a semi-aspie, I do badly at conferences for other reasons and
won't be going -- so I don't share any /practical/ concerns.  But I'm
also bi and ethnically jewish

On Fri, Feb 29, 2008 at 4:09 AM, Ben Yates <ben.louis.yates at gmail.com> wrote:
> I think you misread the "personally discriminated" line -- it seemed
>  like florence was using that wording to specifically acknowledge the
>  extent of the problem, not to diminish it.
>
>  That said, it seems pretty clear that the location was sort of agreed
>  on backroom-style because of the symbolism of alexandria's library.
>
>
>
>  On Fri, Feb 29, 2008 at 2:46 AM, Claudio Mastroianni
>  <gattonero at gmail.com> wrote:
>  >
>  >  Il giorno 29/feb/08, alle ore 08:30, phoebe ayers ha scritto:
>  >
>  >
>  >  > On Thu, Feb 28, 2008 at 1:42 PM, Nathan <nawrich at gmail.com> wrote:
>  >  >> This thread should probably have a more appropriate title.
>  >  >>
>  >  >> As others have eloquently said, Wikimedia is about free - as in
>  >  >> freedom. The
>  >  >> choice of where to meet, as participants in Wikimedia projects,
>  >  >> should
>  >  >> without doubt take this principle into account.
>  >  >
>  >  > It should probably be pointed out just one more time -- even if it is
>  >  > exceedingly obvious -- that our Egyptian colleagues are participants
>  >  > in our community as well. And to my knowledge, they have not yet been
>  >  > able to attend a Wikimania, due to visa issues with the countries
>  >  > involved where we have held the conference in the past. Believe me, it
>  >  > wasn't through lack of trying, all three years.
>  >
>  >  Let me understand: we - gays, lesbians, women "with immoral
>  >  behaviours" should pay the fee for something YOU - the Board, the
>  >  Wikimania Committee, the Whatever - made in the past?
>  >  Who choose Taipei last years? You knew there would have been Visa
>  >  problems.
>  >  It's not our fault.
>  >
>  >
>  >  > I can say that this conference choice was not made for political
>  >  > reasons or as a political statement; that much should be clear.
>  >
>  >  Oh, come on. Don't try to fool us (again). This choice has obviously
>  >  some political reasons too, just like Taipei last year ("Freedom in
>  >  place where freedom doesn't exist").
>  >
>  >
>  >  > I also
>  >  > sincerely hope that anyone who can't attend this year -- whether it's
>  >  > because Egypt is too far, because they don't have enough money,
>  >  > because they fear for their safety traveling, or any other reason --
>  >  > will be able to join the conference in future years in other places,
>  >  > because Wikimania is a truly amazing event.
>  >
>  >  Again: whatever if you're gay/lesbian/woman/whatever, just don't come.
>  >  And thanks for the contributions,cheers.
>  >
>  >
>  >  > I am personally very sorry that people are upset over the location
>  >  > choice and feel personally discriminated against because of it.
>  >
>  >  What? "Personally discriminated"?
>  >  That's offensive: trying to "invert" the problem, accusing the
>  >  complainers.
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  >  _______________________________________________
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>  >
>
>
>
>  --
>  Ben Yates
>  Wikipedia blog - http://wikip.blogspot.com
>



-- 
Ben Yates
Wikipedia blog - http://wikip.blogspot.com