[Foundation-l] Status of cloak requests

Casey Brown cbrown1023.ml at gmail.com
Tue Feb 26 23:01:07 UTC 2008

Why is this a problem for you?  People only have to be ops in channels
who *want* to be and are willing to use the commands.  I don't think
you are an op in any channels, so this shouldn't be a problem for you.

I'm going to respond to numerous comments in this thread in one bulk
e-mail (not necessarily everything is directed at you).

freenode has its guidelines for a reason and they normally work well.

The networks that you are talking about where ops are *always* opped,
don't have channel services and the only way to keep control of their
channels is to remain opped at all times.  This is not a problem on
freenode, we have channel services (ChanServ for that).

The list of ops can be viewed by doing /msg chanserv access #channel
list and you can contact someone on the list by /msg'ing *or* by
visiting the #wikimedia-ops IRC channel.  freenode also requests that
users are not opped at all times because it turns down the heat in
channels and makes everyone equals.  However, it *is* technically
possible for chanserv to op you whenever you enter a channel and allow
you to remain opped in it (/msg chanserv help level), but #wikimedia
channels don't do that for reasons outlined above.

On the subject of clients, please do not use the fact that your client
does not work properly as a reason for why we should change networks.
There are *many* clients to choose from:
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_IRC_clients> and even a
few that work well for macs.

If you a question about customizing a specific client, try visiting
its IRC channel.  For example, there's one at #colloquy on freenode.

On Tue, Feb 26, 2008 at 5:30 PM, Dan Rosenthal <swatjester at gmail.com> wrote:
> I use colloquy on a mac. To op and de op, etc. I have to remember and
>  type out the exact /msg chanserv op #channel (or whatever it is),
>  because none of the mac IRC clients have good compatibility with
>  freenode's services. Other networks have simple commands like !up and !
>  down. They also allow tools like /onotice, which works like the normal
>  notice command, except it only goes to people who have the op flag
>  turned on, allowing them to discuss op things within a channel, and
>  non-ops won't see.
>  It's a continual source of frustration for me to have to fight against
>  IRC to get it to work the way it should, when other networks are so
>  easy. If we had a Wikimedia IRC network (that was using normal style
>  IRC commands, not freenode's strange ones), it'd make being an op so
>  much easier, and that would have a net effect on the enjoyment of the
>  channel users too.
>  John if you know of a way that I can simplify the op/ban/deop process,
>  that will work in colloquoy on a Mac, I'm open to suggestion.
>  -dan
>  On Feb 26, 2008, at 4:58 PM, John Reaves wrote:
>  > Well most of our bans are just zombie proxies, or whatever they're
>  > called,
>  > so there's no real need for a long ban.  Persistent trouble makers
>  > have
>  > longer expiries or are added to the autorem.  It takes what, maybe .5
>  > seconds to type your /cs op shortcut?  I for one can just click a
>  > nick and
>  > op/remove/ban/deop in one fell swoop.  Discussing operator issues in
>  > channel
>  > just invites drama.  I don't know what /onnotice is but it sounds
>  > useful.
>  >
>  > --John Reaves
>  >
>  > On Tue, Feb 26, 2008 at 4:48 PM, Dan Rosenthal
>  > <swatjester at gmail.com> wrote:
>  >
>  >> Actually, freenode is the only network I know that does that. For the
>  >> same reasons you view a network setup with perma-ops and long bans as
>  >> stupid, I view Freenode's setup that invites drama, and attacks and
>  >> hinders ops, as stupid. Every other IRC network I've been on, from
>  >> big
>  >> ones of the EFnet/Undernet type, to smaller ones, the ops are always
>  >> opped so they are a) easily identifiable and we don't need a special
>  >> channel just to present issues to them; b) able to receive the
>  >> benefit
>  >> of commands like /onotice, c) much faster to react to !kb a user (all
>  >> an opped user needs to do is type !kb name, or right click , kickban,
>  >> rather than /msg chanserv for ops, kick the user, deop self), d) It
>  >> shows to flooder types that there are ops in that channel,
>  >> discouraging attacks. For much the same reason, bans last for periods
>  >> of a few weeks unless specifically overturned, rather than banning
>  >> people and then allowing them back in a few days later to cause more
>  >> trouble.
>  >>
>  >>
>  >>
>  >>
>  >> On Feb 26, 2008, at 3:37 PM, John Reaves wrote:
>  >>
>  >>> Catalyzing is bit lame some times, I'll give you that.  But being
>  >>> opped all
>  >>> of the time and keeping bans for longer than a few days for people
>  >>> without a
>  >>> history of abuse is just plain stupid and I would assume any IRC
>  >>> network set
>  >>> up by WMF wouldn't allow it either.
>  >>
>  >>
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Casey Brown

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