[Foundation-l] Wikimania and the Muhammad pix

[Chad]

Also could be attributed to the fact that fawiki is
less known than the primary few languages.

-Chad

On Thu, Feb 21, 2008 at 10:42 AM, Dan Rosenthal <swatjester at gmail.com> wrote:
> The fact that fawiki is not receiving any significant complaints on
>  the topic is quite telling that there is little unanimity within the
>  Ummah about whether the images should stay up, or indeed whether they
>  even are depicting Muhammed (as opposed to depicting an interpretation
>  of him).
>  -dan
>
>
> On Feb 21, 2008, at 10:32 AM, Aphaia wrote:
>
>  > I have talked with several muslims and either they are Sunnis or
>  > Shiias, they share the same opinion: "depicting the Prophet" is an
>  > absolute no-no.
>  >
>  > Recently I had a conversation with a fawiki friend and asked if fawiki
>  > have any problem about hosting those images on their article. First he
>  > seemed to be very surprised to know fawiki hosted "Muhammad's images".
>  > After giving a glance, he got his calmness again and said they were
>  > not "depicting Muhammad" and Muslims know that. There are rather
>  > products of imagination by each artists. So they are okay. And
>  > interestingly I haven't heard anyone complaints about fawiki hostings.
>  >
>  > In other words ... how about thinking that those images are okay as
>  > long as they are not taken as "depicting / illustrating / portraits"
>  > of Muhammad? And if it isn't taken so (and I understand that is the
>  > case of enwiki), it would be a serious offence (and perhaps it would
>  > be historically errors too, if it is true these artists didn't aim to
>  > portrait him)
>  >
>  > On Thu, Feb 21, 2008 at 11:13 PM, Robert Stojnic
>  > <rainmansr at gmail.com> wrote:
>  >> Not long ago when I was randomly browsing through a mosque's library
>  >> in middle east, I found a children's book about Islam, and I remember
>  >> seeing people in it.. E.g. when Muhammad was leaving Mecca there
>  >> was a picture of *some guy* on a donkey followed by people.. There
>  >> wasn't exactly an arrow point to him saying Muhammad, but it was
>  >> pretty
>  >> clear from context..
>  >> So, my impression is that the pictures are not huge taboo unless
>  >> they are
>  >> misused. Now, how can a single pictures stir some much controversy?
>  >> Well, for that to understand you need to try to put yourself in a
>  >> third-world
>  >> position. So, imagine, that western culture is not dominant in the
>  >> world,
>  >> imagine it's chinese. And, all your kids read chinese literature,
>  >> dress
>  >> chinese way, write in chinese script (since roman is no longer cool),
>  >> watch chinese movies, learn chinese in school, look at chinese
>  >> websites,
>  >> etc... And imagine that only thing that keeps you as community is
>  >> your
>  >> religion considered by china as barbaric, and you as possible
>  >> terrorist and second-class citizen... and that somewhere in
>  >> well-off china, someone posts cartoons of baby jesus being pissed
>  >> on by buddha and confucius... Would you be offended? Would it be
>  >> by the picture itself, or by it representing a symbol of
>  >> humiliation and
>  >> power of the first-world to desecrate even the things you find most
>  >> sacred and all in the name of free-speech?
>  >> I'm not trying to advocate anything, just to draw a picture of how
>  >> I've
>  >> seen people feel - which not might be fully representative, but might
>  >> give some insight ..
>  >>
>  >> r.
>  >>
>  >>
>  >>
>  >>
>  >> On Thu, Feb 21, 2008 at 1:16 AM, Dan Rosenthal
>  >> <swatjester at gmail.com> wrote:
>  >>
>  >>> Nada,
>  >>>
>  >>> I'm not sure you're representing the position accurately of Shiite
>  >>> muslims. Far from all muslims take offense. Many, but not all Sunnis
>  >>> do, and some, but not nearly as many Shiite's do. Furthermore, I'm
>  >>> not
>  >>> sure I believe you are in a position to state that there will be no
>  >>> demonstrations. There have already been demonstrations, as
>  >>> reported in
>  >>> the news. You cannot predict the future, and is both folly and
>  >>> dangerous to give assurances that you have no ability to uphold.
>  >>>
>  >>> Finally, I would appreciate that the conference organizers not
>  >>> dismiss
>  >>> something that potentially could affect the safety of conference
>  >>> goers, and not assume that skepticism and criticism equates to poor
>  >>> knowledge of Islamic belief, or uncivilized behavior. That was
>  >>> dangerously prevelant within the Alexandria bid team during the
>  >>> Wikimania bids, it's dangerously prevalent in Egypt's demonstrations
>  >>> (and official state action, no less) today, and it seems borderline
>  >>> prevalent in the tone of your post.
>  >>>
>  >>> When the government of the country that we are hosting a major
>  >>> conference in, completely bans the sale of foreign newspapers for
>  >>> displaying pictures of Muhammed, and chastises the ambassadors from
>  >>> other countries for doing so, we have every right to be concerned
>  >>> about the status and safety of Wikimania. And we have every right to
>  >>> express our dismay in the heavy-handed censorship displayed by the
>  >>> Egyptian government, censorship which is fundamentally opposed to
>  >>> Wikimedia principles.
>  >>>
>  >>> -Dan
>  >>>
>  >>
>  >>
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