[Foundation-l] Criteria for the closure of projects.

Gerard Meijssen gerard.meijssen at gmail.com
Sat Apr 12 11:00:20 UTC 2008

When you establish objective criteria, the point of them is that they are
measurable. So when it is put to me if a project that conforms to the
criteria may be closed, then yes the project may be closed. There are
criteria why you would consider it. The problem is that at this moment there
is a faction that is disgusted with projects that are only wasting time and
effort and there is another faction that is disgusted because people have
the audacity to propose the closure for projects.

With criteria you have identified the projects that may be closed. This is
when the discussion starts. So the rule is projects with both less then 1000
articles and no localisation for 90% of the most relevant messages may be
closed. This means that the people who oppose closure have to provide good
arguments why a project should not be closed. Arguments that are not
nebulous but are measurable.  When the argument is people are working on the
localisation, you can observe this effort. When the argument is people are
writing articles, we can establish that it is not the effort of a bot and
indeed there are readable articles.

When after some discussion there is nothing to show why a project should
stay, when a reasonable time has passed in which it could show that it
merits a project after all, it can be closed. It can be closed to, like a
phoenix rise again first in the Incubator and then back as a project.


On Fri, Apr 11, 2008 at 5:33 PM, Brian McNeil <brian.mcneil at wikinewsie.org>

> Thank you for clarifying this. What you state was not immediately apparent
> and, as should be obvious, my comment was partly meant for shock value. It
> is regrettable to have to say this, but Gerard does not seem to be
> cognizant
> of why his proposal is meeting opposition. It takes common sense out of
> the
> equation altogether. It may be mightily convenient to say, "we have rules,
> we don't need debate", but this is the very reason why
> [[w:Wikipedia:Ignore
> All Rules]] was instituted. There is a very real need for so many aspects
> of
> WMF work to rely on the commonsense of contributors and committee members.
> What disgusted me the most was Gerard had resorted to shouting to state he
> did not want to see *any* project closed, but when an example is thrown up
> his response is "close per proposed rules". This is being about as
> consistent as quicksand and not conducive to what should be the objective.
> I.e. providing better guidance to those put in the unenviable position of
> making a decision, yes, *guidance*, not a set of rules to be blindly
> applied. People are put in positions on committees to exercise good
> judgement, not blindly apply a set of rules. If we have an unambiguous set
> of rules we don't need a committee, a computer can do the job.
> Brian McNeil
> -----Original Message-----
> From: foundation-l-bounces at lists.wikimedia.org
> [mailto:foundation-l-bounces at lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Andrew
> Whitworth
> Sent: 11 April 2008 17:15
> To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] Criteria for the closure of projects.
> On Fri, Apr 11, 2008 at 11:03 AM, Brian McNeil
> <brian.mcneil at wikinewsie.org> wrote:
> > You don't burn a book because you don't like the number of pages it has.
> Right here is the fundamental misconception: "closing" a project is a
> bit of a misnomer because the content itself isn't "closed": the
> content is moved to the incubator and work can continue on it as
> normal. We're not talking about deleting or "burning" projects, we're
> talking about moving them to a structured development area where they
> will have a better chance at success, and better support from the WMF
> community at large. If, at the incubator, a critical mass of
> supporters emerges, the project can be reopened. Upon reopening, the
> project will have much better success then it would have had
> otherwise.
> --Andrew Whitworth
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