[Foundation-l] Criteria for the closure of projects.

Fri Apr 11 11:30:53 UTC 2008

Yes, but what is "manifestly dead"?

According to you, that is anything under 1000 articles with a lack of
near-complete basic interface translation.

I remember when the Thai Wikipedia had less than 1000 articles.

I would say, instead, anything under 50 articles that exhibits no
growth, at all, ever. And yet I would still not personally vote to
close this Wiki, for reasons I already outlined, but I do not think it
would be unreasonable to vote that way.

I notice the existing voting patterns tend to lean in that direction.
In fact, I don't think any wiki with over 50 articles (and certainly
none over 100) has been voted to be closed, besides the exceptional
cases of Siberian and Moldovan. Clearly, then, the community's
standards are much stricter than are yours.

Mark

On 11/04/2008, Gerard Meijssen <gerard.meijssen at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hoi,
>  I do not propose the closure of projects. What I propose are objective
>  criteria for the closure of projects. What is wrong with the current system
>  is that because of this lack of objective criteria anything goes and the way
>  it currently works is ridiculous. Voting to keep a project open when it is
>  manifestly dead is stupid. Objective criteria work in two directions.
>
>  When a project is closed, it can go into the incubator. This means that
>  there are criteria that allow for a restart ie the same criteria that exist
>  for a new project.
>
>
>  On Fri, Apr 11, 2008 at 12:54 PM, Mark Williamson <node.ue at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>  > Alright, then... why the proposal to close projects? If, after all,
>  > people are already proposing to close them on their own. What is wrong
>  > with the existing system?
>  >
>  > I think we should just say that as long as a Wiki has over 1000
>  > non-bot generated articles, it may *not* be closed by a simple vote; a
>  > Wiki may not be re-proposed after it has failed to be closed; and
>  > beyond that let the existing system work its magic.
>  >
>  > Mark
>  >
>  > On 11/04/2008, Gerard Meijssen <gerard.meijssen at gmail.com> wrote:
>  > > Hoi,
>  > >  My time is better spend supporting OmegaWiki and Betawiki. The way I
>  > try to
>  > >  accomplish things is different from you. My time is better spend doing
>  > the
>  > >  things that I do. The things that I understand. I said it before, we
>  > want by
>  > >  and large the same thing but we go about it in a different way. You way
>  > of
>  > >  doing things does not work for me. And yes, I do support particular
>  > >  languages .. to do that I exchanged for instance e-mails with a
>  > professor
>  > >  today.
>  > >  Thanks,
>  > >       GerardM
>  > >
>  > >
>  > >  On Fri, Apr 11, 2008 at 11:55 AM, Mark Williamson <node.ue at gmail.com>
>  > wrote:
>  > >
>  > >  > >  At the same time there is an increasing group of people that
>  > object to
>  > >  > all
>  > >  > >  the projects that are for intends and purposes dead. The creation
>  > of
>  > >  > the
>  > >  > >  Incubator, the policies of the language committee and now the
>  > proposed
>  > >  > >  criteria for the closure of projects are all intended to make sure
>  > that
>  > >  > >  there are some minimal criteria that intend to ensure that as many
>  > >  > projects
>  > >  > >  as possible will do well.
>  > >  >
>  > >  > Let them object. Their criteria seem to be far less stringent than
>  > >  > yours -- the vote to close the Chamorro Wikipedia ended at a
>  > >  > standstill with no clear consensus either way. If people want to vote
>  > >  > to close the Kanuri Wikipedia, as they already did, then why can't we
>  > >  > let them?
>  > >  >
>  > >  > >  I am not God, and you are not a boy putting his finger in the
>  > dyke. We
>  > >  > both
>  > >  > >  cannot prevent people to object to moribund projects. What we can
>  > do is
>  > >  > stem
>  > >  > >  the flow and provide objective criteria that will streamline the
>  > flow
>  > >  > and in
>  > >  > >  that way we can prevent damage.
>  > >  >
>  > >  > Damage, of what type? Any time somebody has made a seemingly
>  > frivolous
>  > >  > proposal (although both proposals had good reasons: Lombard and
>  > >  > Yiddish), it was soundly defeated in a poll. And if anyone ever voted
>  > >  > to close a Wikipedia that should obviously remain open by any sane
>  > >  > criteria (say, Catalan or Venetian), I am confident that someone
>  > would
>  > >  > intervene.
>  > >  >
>  > >  > >  Jimmy has his contacts, the WMF has its contacts, I have mine and
>  > so do
>  > >  > you.
>  > >  > >  When we want to have more languages supported with a Wikipedia we
>  > can
>  > >  > tell
>  > >  > >  them about it, we can be enthusiastic about it but in the final
>  > >  > analysis it
>  > >  > >  is the people that have to do the work. You can lead a horse to
>  > water,
>  > >  > you
>  > >  > >  cannot make it drink.
>  > >  >
>  > >  > The problem is that we are not leading enough "horses" right now.
>  > When
>  > >  > is the last time you have e-mailed a Guamanian guy to let him know
>  > >  > that the Chamorro Wikipedia exists? Or asked for help from some
>  > >  > organization that aims to promote the culture of the Marshall
>  > Islands?
>  > >  > These people and organizations do exist, and I (and others) have
>  > >  > solicited similar help before for other projects, with some success.
>  > >  > It's been a while since I sent such an e-mail, but I have found they
>  > >  > helped with: Malagasy, Maltese, Sicilian, Friulian, and several
>  > >  > others.
>  > >  >
>  > >  > Mark
>  > >  >
>  > >
>  > > > _______________________________________________
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