[Foundation-l] Provisional Volunteer Council - proposal sent to theBoard

Thu Apr 3 07:59:14 UTC 2008

FloNight wrote:

Hello Sydney

> Viable options for now.
> 
> *Have a board resolution to form a Wording Group to do a Feasibility
> Study for a Volunteer Council. The Working Group is tasked with
> presenting the alternatives to the Board. At a later date the Board
> will pass a resolution if a Volunteer Council is selected.
> 
> or
> 
> *Have the the board discuss this internally with the staff and make a
> decision about whether a Volunteer Council is a good idea. Might or
> might not include a firm decision on the structure of the Volunteer
> Council. If the decision is made to form a VC, some forms of the
> Council might be excluded (for legal or other reasons) prior to
> forming a Provincial Council that is tasked with getting the Volunteer
> Council started. This may or may not be completed at this Board
> Meeting.

As I already indicated in the email about the board meeting program, 
there is indeed a day dedicated to discuss such issues. I am not quite 
sure what will really come out of this day, in particular in the light 
of the potential legal consequences (which will need to be addressed 
before taking any final decision), but what I hope will come out of it 
is a clear and agreed upon (by board) list of "what needs to be fixed".

In short, first step is to find out the problems (IF there are problems) 
and second to figure out how to fix them. It may be entirely that the 
creation of a VC (as unique action point) is sufficient to fix what 
needs to be fixed. But more likely, several problems will need several 
different actions.

Ant

> or
> 
> *Delay the decision as too premature. If the transition from a
> volunteer run Foundation (with the Board running the operations) to
> one run by professional staff is not complete yet,  are the
> professional staff able to advise the Board in a way that a good
> decision can be made?
> 
> or
> 
> Forget the proposed resolution and make a discussion of this topic a
> reoccurring topic without closure. (not a good choice)
> 
> Sydney Poore
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Wed, Apr 2, 2008 at 5:50 PM, Philippe Beaudette
> <philippebeaudette at gmail.com> wrote:
>> All,
>>
>>  I decided to go back to the "source", as it were and re-read the resolution.
>>  Below are my concerns (inline).  My conclusion is that the members below (as
>>  well as any others the Board wishes to appoint) should become a working
>>  group - not a provisional council - and determine what the heck a VC would
>>  do, clear it legally, and begin to define the process of appointing people
>>  to it.  That does not, I believe, require a resolution this wordy or with
>>  this level of detail.
>>
>>  Philippe
>>
>>
>>  --------------------------------------------------
>>  >
>>  > Whereas the Board,
>>  >
>>  > * recognizes the value of volunteers in Wikimedia projects and that
>>  > their work is the very reason of their success,
>>  > * values the volunteers' opinions and takes them into serious
>>  > consideration when discussing issues involving the volunteers,
>>  > * is of the opinion that these volunteers should have a strong say in
>>  > changes in the articles of incorporation and the bylaws of the
>>  > Wikimedia Foundation,
>>
>>  No problem, agree totally.
>>
>>
>>  > * considers a Volunteer Council a valuable intermediary between
>>  > volunteers and the Foundation, and as a good instrument to hear the
>>  > voice of the volunteers:
>>  >
>>  > it is hereby resolved that:
>>  >
>>  > 1. The Board of Trustees hereby creates a Volunteer Council, to serve
>>  > as a valuable complement to the Staff, Advisory Board and Board of
>>  > Trustees.
>>
>>  Really?  Thought we were creating a provisional council, which would
>>  recommend to the Board how to create a volunteer council.  I'm uneasy about
>>  the board creating a volunteer council without knowing what it is to do.
>>  This resolution addresses what the VC will do, not separately what the PVC
>>  will do.  I believe the resolution should be re-written with that in mind.
>>
>>
>>  > 2. Without restricting the generality of this provision the purposes
>>  > of the Volunteer Council shall include:
>>  >
>>  >  1) Offering advice and support on issues relevant to the Wikimedia
>>  > Volunteers,
>>  >  2) Recommanding the opening or closure of Wikimedia projects,
>>  >  3) Approving changes to the articles of incorporation or bylaws of
>>  > the Wikimedia Foundation and
>>  >  4) Assist in establishing a clear separation between the legal
>>  > responsibilities of the Wikimedia Foundation as an Internet Service
>>  > Provider and the community decisions for the Wikimedia Projects.
>>
>>  I have concerns with sub-heading 2, 3, and 4.
>>  For subheading two: (other than that the fact "recommending" is spelled
>>  wrong), I wonder what's wrong with the process we have now.
>>  For subheading three: I think this is treacherous legal territory.
>>  For subheading four: Again, I think this is treacherous legal territory.
>>  The words "Internet Service Provider" are carefully defined in law.  Our
>>  current by-laws support that definition, and I simply don't know what impact
>>  the proposed council will have on that.
>>
>>
>>
>>  >
>>  > 3. The members from the Volunteer Council must be volunteers within
>>  > Wikimedia.
>>
>>  Defined how?  1 edit?  1000?  What about sysadmins who basically don't edit?
>>  If not defined here, who will define it?  The latter part of the resolution
>>  specifies that the PVC will advise as to the composition of the VC, so why
>>  is this resolution doing it?
>>
>>
>>  > 4. The Provisional Volunteer Council shall report to the Board no
>>  > later than September 1, 2008, which report shall include
>>  > recommendations regarding the number and composition of the Volunteer
>>  > Council, and how the members of the Council shall be chosen. Said
>>  > report shall also include recommendations regarding the distribution
>>  > of rights and responsibilities between the Board and Council, and any
>>  > changes in the by-laws that may be necessary to implement this.
>>
>>  Except that we never created by resolution a PVC to report this.  I'm
>>  uncomfortable with the PVC (selected, unapproved by the community beyond
>>  Foundation-l) approving charter and by-law changes.  I'd be far more
>>  comfortable with such changes coming from the VC, once created.  Yes, that
>>  means creating an essentially neutered body and then assigning them
>>  responsibility, but at least they're a community selected group and not a
>>  foundation-l and effe selected group.
>>
>>
>>
>>  > 5. Except where it pertains to its own procedures, no decision of the
>>  > Provisional Volunteer Council shall bind any person.
>>
>>  Of course it will.  Any rule-making binds people, even in selecting how to
>>  select people.
>>
>>
>>  > 6. On receipt of the said report the Board shall take such steps as it
>>  > deems necessary to confirm and empower the Volunteer Council, and
>>  > provide for a transition of operations from the Provisional Volunteer
>>  > Council.
>>
>>  What if the PVC returns a Bad Thing?  Isn't the Board empowered to say "no
>>  thanks, let's send this back for future study?"  If the PVC returns
>>  something that's even illegal (obviously not on purpose, but I didn't see a
>>  Florida lawyer on the PVC), or would take us out of compliance with funding
>>  requirements, etc, I don't want this resolution to bind the Board to create
>>  and empower the VC - even "as it deems necessary", which doesn't give the
>>  Board a lot of wiggle room.
>>
>>
>>  > 7. Members of the Volunteer Council will not be financially
>>  > compensated for their activity. On approval by the Board of Trustees
>>  > expenses of the Provisional Volunteer Council and Volunteer Council in
>>  > the fulfillment of their duties may be reimbursed.
>>  > 8. The following people are hereby appointed as member of the
>>  > Provisional Volunteer Council:
>>  >
>>  > Michael Bimmler, Mbimmler (Main project: de.wikipedia)
>>  > Yaroslav Blanter, Yaroslav Blanter (Main project: ru.wikipedia)
>>  > Lise Broer, Durova (Main projects: en.wikipedia and commons.wikimedia )
>>  > Jesse Plamondon-Willard, Pathoschild (Main projects: en.wikisource
>>  > and meta.wikimedia )
>>  > Sydney Poore, FloNight (Main project: en.wikipedia)
>>  > Milos Rancic, Millosh (Main project: sr.wikipedia)
>>  > Ray Saintonge, Eclecticology (Main project: en.wikisource, en.wikipedia)
>>  > Andrew Whitworth, Whiteknight (Main project: en.wikibooks)
>>  > Michal Zlatkovsky, Timichal (Main project: cs.wikipedia)
>>  >
>>  > 9. The members of the Provisional Volunteer Council may on a 2/3 vote
>>  > of all its members add such additional members as they may deem
>>  > necessary and useful to their deliberations.
>>
>>  This one strikes me as a bit cabalish.  I would think they could ask people
>>  to serve as advisors, but if the Board appoints a PVC, that ought to remain
>>  the PVC, just as when the Board appointed the election committee, we stayed
>>  the election committee, though we have the freedom to ask advice of experts
>>  (Tim Starling, for example, on technical issues).
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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