[Foundation-l] Priorities

[Marc Riddell]

>>> snip
> 
>>>> 
>> on 10/22/07 1:50 PM, Birgitte SB at
>> birgitte_sb at yahoo.com wrote:
>>> 
>>> This is an en.WP issue (again). Articles on
>> web-comics
>>> have been deleted as not notable on en.WP. [1]  It
>>> might be useful to share with Howard what the
>> actual
>>> mission of Wiki*media* is and how it works, just
>> for
>>> the sake of clarity.  But I can't imagine anyone
>> would
>>> really support WMF writing and enforcing new
>> deletion
>>> guidelines for en.WP or anything else that would
>> truly
>>> appease him. 
>>> 
Marc Riddell <michaeldavid86 at comcast.net> wrote:

>> Brigitte,
>> 
>> This is the key to his message:
>> 
>> "If the foundation really cared about what these
>> editors write, and how they
>> treat other people, it would take steps to curb
>> their behavior."
>> 
>> The web-comics issue must, of course, be presented
>> to. But, to focus only on
>> the web-comics issue is like extinguishing a single
>> tree in the middle of a
>> forest fire.
>> 
>> The issue with Wikipedia is the deteriorating
>> culture, and the equally
>> deteriorating language of that culture! And anyone
>> who stands by and allows
>> it to happen - and to continue - is equally
>> culpable. Cultural change
>> happens only when the people who are a part of that
>> culture change. And a
>> culture is a reflection of everyone who is a part of
>> it.
>> 
>> Marc Riddell
>> 
on 10/23/07 10:19 AM, Birgitte SB at birgitte_sb at yahoo.com wrote:

>> 
> This is why I suggested clarifying how the whole
> system works to him.  How each wiki is self-governing
> and the core principles that WMF insists all the wiki
> follow.  I doubt it will change his mind about helping
> but it would be good to clarify that the culture of
> en.WP is not the culture of Wikimedia.  The truth very
> well might be that ja.WP is more accepting of articles
> on webcomics and de.WP even less than en.WP.   The
> culture of Wikimedia is the culture of letting these
> communities grow and each try their own methods.  And
> to allow everyone to communicate and learn from each
> others methods.  There is not cultural change needed
> in this.
> 
> En.WP does have a problematic culture, but there is
> little in this issue that conflicts with core
> principles of Wikimedia.  I don't see what WMF can do
> to help en.WP grow up.  What do you see WMF doing
> about this issue?
> 
> Birgitte SB
> 
In short, Brigitte, nothing directly.

As I understand it, each Wikipedia is a separate Wikimedia entity under the
large umbrella of the WMF. If I misunderstand this in any way, please
correct me. The various language Wikipedias are completely separate one from
another. And they each have a culture of their own. I regret the fact that I
am not bilingual; for this robs me of the opportunity of experiencing the
Wikipedias other than the English one. Consequently, and rightfully, this is
the only one I can speak of.

The issue in question occurred on the English Wikipedia, but the reference
to it occurred on this List. That is why I responded to it here.

Perhaps it is, in a way, fortuitous that it landed here, because I believe
the other language Wikipedias may learn from what is happening in the
English Wikipedia, and prevent their projects from going down the same path.

As the English Wikipedia has grown in size - so has its arrogance. And this
arrogance is not only obvious in its relations to other Wikimedia Projects,
but, worse, in how the individual Community Members relate and interact with
each other. This is purely a cultural issue. And, this is a problem only the
English Wikipedia can solve.

So I say to the all language Wikipedias: please take the pulse of your
projects carefully and often. Be conscious of how your Members are talking
and relating to each other. Be particularly conscious of the more
vulnerable, and more impressionable, among you. If necessary teach people
how to talk (and how not to talk) to each other.

Many truly creative, intelligent persons are shy by nature, and don't stand
up well to personal attacks and aggressive confrontation. Or, they are
focused on writing and creating the substance of the encyclopedia, and
simply don't have time for the bullshit. In either case, if presented with
enough of this, they will most likely leave the Project. If this type of
behavior becomes pervasive in a Project, what it will be left with are a
bunch of arrogant, combative, antisocial, club-wielding bullies; and your
Project will have worked its way into its own stone age.

Be healthy,

Marc Riddell