[Foundation-l] [Wikimania-l] Wikimania 2008 will happen in Alexandria, Egypt

[David Strauss]

George Herbert wrote:
> You can speak all you want.  You are insisting on the right to
> overturn the completed and announced selection process on your
> personal judgement and factors, however, which is a completely
> different story.

When did I ask them to overturn it? We're about to enter into a fresh
bidding process for 2009. Now is the time to raise issues with the
bidding process.

> If this was important, then you should have spoken up earlier, when
> there was time to factor this into the criteria, or ask Alexandria to
> withdraw gracefully or prepare a statement on the issue or some such.

Objections of this sort were raised over a year ago:

<http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Wikimania_2007/Alexandria#GLBT_concerns_in_Egypt>

Am I supposed to say, "Oh, by the way, those human rights abuses that
were going on... yeah they're still happening"?

> This is like coming up after the jury aquitted OJ and saying "Oh,
> Wait, I saw him kill them!  I didn't say anything because I was sure
> you'd find him guilty anyways!  Can you retry him and put him in jail
> now?".

Except here the evidence has been in everyone's face for years.

> There is a little less finality or legality associated with a WMF
> selection, but it's the same fundamental problem.  If you had an
> issue, then you should have brought it up at the time that selection
> criteria were being discussed.  It's perfectly reasonable to conclude
> that your silence then has largely mooted the point now.
> 
> If this were "...but they're really cannibalistic genocidal
> monsters!..." then I can see overturning anyways, but you're arguing
> that the jury simply failed to account for critieria in a  manner you
> prefer.
> 
> I am all for gay rights.  I was extremely happy for the lesbian couple
> who I lived next door to, who got married in San Francisco while it
> was briefly legal.  And I support the law changing to let them re-do
> it in the future.

Those never took legal force, for the record.

> I am all for freedom of politics and religion, and I agree that
> Egypt's government is in some important ways oppressive and unfree.
> 
> But I don't have a problem with vacationing in Egypt, or going to a
> conference in Alexandria.  Neither of those things endorses Egyptian
> honor killings, abuse of gays/lesbians, or political oppression.  I
> suspect that liberal Egyptians want more western contact, not less.

I have a feeling that if you have been to Egypt, you haven't combined
your trip with advocating any of the rights you so fervently profess to
value. All that requires is that you keep your mouth shut. It's quite a
different situation for people who are transgender or transsexual.

> The line you want to draw is all of in the wrong place, for the wrong
> reasons, and too late.

And you've still miraculously failed to answer my question: where do you
draw the line? All I keep hearing from you is that Egypt hasn't crossed it.

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