[Foundation-l] [Wikimania-l] Wikimania 2008 will happen in Alexandria, Egypt

[David Strauss]

George Herbert wrote:
> One outside the US (and a few inside it...) might reply that the US
> has been illegally holding terror suspects without trial and torturing
> some of them, intercepting telecommunications widely both
> internationally and domestically, and waging illegal war in Iraq.

We're talking about Egypt, not the United States. Your assertion that
few people in the U.S. are critical of U.S. policy is specious at best.

> We could hold an even in ... London (no, wait, tube/bus bombings)...
> Paris (race riots?)... Moscow (organized crime? government
> oppression?)... Madrid (train bombings?), San Francisco (a few
> murders, and might all fall down in an earthquake...), Seattle (less
> murders, but both likely to fall down and be sunk by a Tsunami in a
> quake, and there's a volcano waiting to spew Lahar all over the
> southern parts of the city...).
> 
> Let us be practical.  There are moral and practical concerns with
> about every possible venue we could chose.  At least some of those
> concerns are legitimate in a wider scope.  We cannot not chose
> somewhere to go, or rule out any given place, due to legitimate but
> not overwhelming concerns.

What is your standard for "not overwhelming"?

> Gay and lesbian tourists from the US go to Egypt all the time without
> being oppressed; I'm sure some of them are offended by the local
> treatment of their peers, but they vacation in good health and safety.
> 
> Westerners visiting Egypt are not, as a rule, bothered by the local
> political issues.  Most of the factions in those agree that bothering
> western tourists is a bad idea, and though there was a spate of
> terrorism it seems to have receded and stayed away.  Alexandria was
> also far from the areas which were affected by that.

I'm quite tired of hearing people justify atrocities on the basis of the
atrocities not affecting them.

> I would oppose any suggestion of a Wikimania in a Sharia Law area, or
> in a truly dangerous location from participants' health and safety, or
> freedom of information or civil rights perspective.

As stated and cited in my original letter, people have been imprisoned
for criticizing the government. Does that qualify?

> Rangoon would be
> bad.  Bagdhad would be ... let's just not go there, and I wish any
> Iraqi Wikipedians the best of luck with recovering your civilization
> and country.   Egypt is "travel advisories" and some topical
> sensitivity, not "overwhelmingly oppressive" or "bring your
> Blackwater".
> 
> Perhaps future standards should increase the civil rights and
> western-style freedoms issues significance in judging.  But Alexandria
> is a fine choice now.  Arguing to change the selection criteria after
> selection, without having already used the opportunity present to make
> statements or recommendations before selection, is poor process.

The fact that the voters chose to penalize Alexandria lightly for human
rights issues only came to light *today*.

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