[Foundation-l] university blocking wikipedia

[Florence Devouard]

George Herbert wrote:
> On 10/2/07, Florence Devouard <Anthere9 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>> Thomas Dalton wrote:
>>>> Recently, I read a report from a French teacher. He enjoys a certain
>>>> reputation in the teaching environment, so whilst not all agree with
>>>> him, he is certainly listened to by many.
>>>>
>>>> He made a comment which I thought was interesting.
>>>>
>>>> He said "Wikipedia can not be used in the French formal educational
>>>> system (schools) because our nation is laic, whilst Wikipedia follows
>>>> the neutral point of view. Being laic means that our schools precisely
>>>> chose a certain value framework and deliberately educate the kids to
>>>> hold certain beliefs and share certain values. On the contrary,
>>>> wikipedia holds that all points of view must be given room. For this
>>>> reason, Wikipedia is not compatible with our schooling system and should
>>>> not be used as a resource".
>>>>
>>>> I found that approach interesting indeed. For once, the issue he was
>>>> raising was not so much a question of quality or of stability of the
>>>> information, or even of manipulation, but simply a statement "we want
>>>> our kids to learn that certain things are true, and others are not true.
>>>> Or certain things are good, and others are not good. Wikipedia is a
>>>> great resource, but can't be used as teaching support".
>>>>
>>>> Topics that come to my mind are of course topics such as revisionism,
>>>> cults, creationism, or pedophilia.
>>> Interesting viewpoint. Wikipedia is incompatible with the French
>>> education system, due to a different definition of "truth". I would
>>> say it's a failing in the French (and many other nation's) education
>>> system, more than anything else, but then if I didn't firmly believe
>>> in NPOV, I wouldn't be emailing foundation-l, would I?
>> I fear I would consider this approach a little bit too simplistic
>> Thomas. The goals of education are usually considered to be 4.
>> Intellectual goal, economic purpose, but also social and political/civic
>> purpose. Education is a political process, with some political outcomes.
>> For example, schools are in particular the place where new immigrants
>> really get integrated, the place where they learn the values of one
>> nation, and learn a common history, and learn to create a common
>> background to be able to live with others in harmony.
>> On that note, the USA schools are actually much more efficient than the
>> french ones to create a deep feeling of being american. When I lived
>> there, I was always impressed at how quickly an immigrant was engulfed
>> in the american way of life. This is not something that my country
>> succeeds in very well.
>> Part of the reasons this integration is so efficient is that the schools
>> somehow follow a certain curricula, teach certain values, choose to
>> teach or not certain point of views.
>> One of the things that astonished me when I lived in the USA was to
>> realise how many americans actually believed in creationism. In France,
>> even the most fanatic of our catholics believe in evolutionism.
>> Creationism is not even mentionned at school. I heard that in the USA,
>> in some schools, it was the opposite. I guess both schools (the french
>> and the americans ones) would fear using a wikipedia article on the topic.
>>
>> Well, I firmly believe in NPOV, but as a mom, I also consider that I
>> should have the freedom to decide 1) what my kids are taught and 2) when
>> they are offered certain information I consider restricted. I do think
>> that schools should educate the kids in the value system commonly
>> followed in a country. I would not ban Wikipedia (it is stupid, the kids
>> gets to it at home), rather educate teachers to use it well, but I can
>> not blame someone who considers that Wikipedia can not be confused with
>> a textbook, adapted to the value system of the nation. I consider that
>> his view point, not a failure of him. I do not think I am in a position
>> of considering my position is the truth and his the error :-)
>>
>> ant
> 
> Textbooks are always somewhat slanted, if nothing else to the most
> dominant political correctness (or blandness) of the education
> authorities in the area in question.
> 
> I think the 64 mille franc question is

We are in euros now :-)
francs are dead

  - are there encyclopedias in
> French school libraries,

yes

and if so, are they general purpose ones, or
> are they special education editions for French schools, with
> appropriate modifications for local educational standard?

General purpose encyclopedias and dictionaries. There are 2-3 different 
brands disputing the market. Some teachers prefer one brand over 
another, but are fairly tolerant if we choose another one.
The encyclopedias/dictionaries are adapted to age level. More content, 
phrased differently. Include synomyms or not. Etc...
Hmmm, I had to buy a first simple one to the kids around age 7-8.
Then, there is a slightly more complex and complete around 9-10.
Then a junior one around 11-14. Over 14, I presume the teenagers use the 
adult regular version.

I expect that the versions for the young ones do not deal with certain 
topics. I very well remember looking for "terrorism" back in 2001 or 
2002 in my son version, and the word was not there. I do not think there 
is any governmental control over that, but simply the natural control 
from the editor-in-chief.

> Wikipedia is not a textbook and should not be treated or assessed as
> such.  It's a reference book analog.

ya


> By the way, I love the phrase "engulfed in the american way of life".
> Evocative and insightful at the same time.

:-)