[Foundation-l] It is not necessary to quote the entire text of the person you respond to
Klaus Graf
klausgraf at googlemail.com
Thu Nov 22 23:43:44 UTC 2007
Can you folks PLEASE consider
http://www.netmeister.org/news/learn2quote2.html#ss2.1
I am not amused when I read digests like the digest below.
Thanks
Klaus Graf
2007/11/22, foundation-l-request at lists.wikimedia.org
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: GFDL and relicensing (SJ Klein)
> 2. Re: GFDL and Relicensing (Lars Aronsson)
> 3. Re: GFDL and Relicensing (Ray Saintonge)
> 4. Re: Pledge bank (GerardM)
> 5. Re: FW: A Crime in Missouri (Marc Riddell)
> 6. Re: GFDL and Relicensing (Robert Rohde)
> 7. Re: FW: A Crime in Missouri (Dan Rosenthal)
> 8. Re: FW: A Crime in Missouri (Marc Riddell)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2007 15:53:47 -0500 (EST)
> From: SJ Klein <meta.sj at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] GFDL and relicensing
> To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List
> <foundation-l at lists.wikimedia.org>
> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0711221551160.27587 at hera.hcs.harvard.edu>
> Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
>
>
> "does this conversation have the Viral-nature?"
>
> Others would say that it is the social and not the legal viral component
> that has had true impact. (though this hides the fact that law is simply
> a social component cast in aa that changes very slowly over time)
>
> SJ
>
>
>
> On Thu, 22 Nov 2007, Ray Saintonge wrote:
>
> > Robert Horning wrote:
> >> BTW, this is precisely the situation that Stallman wanted when he wrote
> >> the GFDL. It is a viral license, and taints everything that it
> >> touches. This is also one of the key reasons why there are people who
> >> simply hate the GFDL and GPL, for this exact reason.
> >>
> > Some of us would consider the viral nature as the most enlightened
> > feature of the licence.
> >
> > Ec
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > foundation-l mailing list
> > foundation-l at lists.wikimedia.org
> > Unsubscribe: http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
> >
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2007 21:46:29 +0100 (CET)
> From: Lars Aronsson <lars at aronsson.se>
> Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] GFDL and Relicensing
> To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List
> <foundation-l at lists.wikimedia.org>
> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0711222054220.16744 at localhost.localdomain>
> Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
>
> Tim 'avatar' Bartel wrote:
>
> > of cases where people (in Germany) notice an '...or later'
> > clause and sign a contract anyhow because they know, that this
> > clause is ineffective.
>
> German law applies *in Germany*, not *to Germans*. As soon as
> they (or their works) move beyond borders, they are exposed to
> other legal systems. (Go to China and kill someone -- you might
> be sentenced to death.) So if the clause is ineffective under
> German law, you can feel "safe" only as long as you (and your
> work) stay in that country.
>
> Suppose the WMF in the year 2057 decides to use your Wikipedia
> articles in accordance with GFDL version 17. You're in Germany
> and claim that you never legally agreed to this, and you sue WMF
> for copyright infringement in a German court of law. That might
> stop WMF from reusing your articles in this way in Germany, but it
> doesn't stop WMF from reusing your articles in this way in Mexico.
> If you're going to sue anybody for copyright infringement in
> Mexico, you must find arguments that work under Mexican law.
>
> The state of Bavaria claims they own Hitler's copyright, which
> they confiscated in 1948, and sued a Swedish publisher of a
> translated "Mein Kampf" (1992). But the Swedish supreme court in
> 1998 said a state cannot legally confiscate copyright for the
> purpose of blocking publishing, since that would mean censorship,
> and turned the case down. The book is sold in stores (part 1, ISBN
> 978-91-7123-100-0 and part 2, ISBN 978-91-7123-101-7).
>
>
> --
> Lars Aronsson (lars at aronsson.se)
> Aronsson Datateknik - http://aronsson.se
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2007 13:22:33 -0800
> From: Ray Saintonge <saintonge at telus.net>
> Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] GFDL and Relicensing
> To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List
> <foundation-l at lists.wikimedia.org>
> Message-ID: <4745F319.30602 at telus.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> Robert Rohde wrote:
> > Some of us, myself included, believe that commercial reuse SHOULD BE
> > burdensome. Or more specifically, if a commercial publisher is going to
> > profit on the back of content they didn't create and with no funds going to
> > the authors, then it should be dreadfully obvious that the content in
> > question is free content, and not the run-of-the-mill restricted content
> > that they always publish. In some ways the GFDL is overboard in that regard
> > (i.e. you don't need a long license document for a single image), but I
> > believe publishers should be burdened with making their use of free content
> > clearly identified.
> >
> > Also, I realize that not everyone feels the same way about being burdensome.
> I have no problem with commercial reuse. In a way it seems to me that
> NC licences are counterproductive. We want the viral nature of the
> licence to infect the commercial sites.
>
> On the other hand, when it comes to fair use material, I don't think
> that it should be our duty to do the fair use evaluation for commercial
> operations.
>
> Ec
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2007 22:59:35 +0100
> From: GerardM <gerard.meijssen at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] Pledge bank
> To: "Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List"
> <foundation-l at lists.wikimedia.org>
> Message-ID:
> <41a006820711221359rb564738t1addc50520aba69b at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> Hoi,
> So it is not interesting that the servers are running and stay that way ...
> Hmmm
> Thanks,
> GerardM
>
> On Nov 22, 2007 8:59 PM, Thomas Dalton <thomas.dalton at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > I really like the idea of having a pledge bank and keeping people who
> > are
> > > making regular, albeit small, donations informed about what WMF is up
> > to. If
> > > we can say, "Your donations allowed us to run a number of workshops in
> > South
> > > Africa. That was 3 months ago, the Africaans Wikipedia has grown by x
> > > hundred articles since then." My objective here? You're showing donors
> > that
> > > their money is making a difference, even if - with English WP at 2 mill+
> > > articles - they never notice the difference.
> >
> > The problem is, most of the money goes on just keeping the servers
> > running, it doesn't go on anything interesting.
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > foundation-l mailing list
> > foundation-l at lists.wikimedia.org
> > Unsubscribe: http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2007 16:59:31 -0500
> From: Marc Riddell <michaeldavid86 at comcast.net>
> Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] FW: A Crime in Missouri
> To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List
> <foundation-l at lists.wikimedia.org>
> Message-ID: <C36B65F3.A96F%michaeldavid86 at comcast.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>
> Thanks, Brigitte, I didn't know. I'd also be curious as to how the law
> defines stalking and harassment.
>
> Marc
>
> on 11/22/07 2:57 PM, Birgitte SB at birgitte_sb at yahoo.com wrote:
>
> > I happen to live near this town and do know the
> > details [1].
> >
> > I can't see how this could involve WMF. The idea is
> > to make it possible to prosecute individuals who
> > intentionally harass others online. It has nothing to
> > do with the means of harassment. The only way I see
> > WMF being affected is if the person charged with
> > harassment is a checkuser or employee or something.
> >
> > BirgitteSB
> >
> > [1]
> > http://us.f303.mail.yahoo.com/ym/Compose?box=Foundation%2dl&Mid=2863_1062078_3
> > 2964_3161_498_0_31904_1095_70994589&inc=&Search=&YY=11233&y5beta=yes&y5beta=ye
> > s&order=down&sort=date&pos=0
> >
> > --- Marc Riddell <michaeldavid86 at comcast.net> wrote:
> >
> >> This copy was meant for this List.
> >>
> >> Marc
> >> ----------
> >> From: Marc Riddell <michaeldavid86 at comcast.net>
> >> Reply-To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List
> >> <foundation-l at lists.wikimedia.org>
> >> Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2007 14:20:08 -0500
> >> To: WikiEN List <wikien-l at lists.wikimedia.org>
> >> Cc: Foundation List
> >> <foundation-l at lists.wikimedia.org>
> >> Subject: [Foundation-l] A Crime in Missouri
> >>
> >> This is a question for you legal eagles out there:
> >>
> >> A town in Missouri (USA) has made on-line stalking
> >> and harassment a crime. I
> >> don't know much of the details, I just got it from
> >> CNN. But my question is,
> >> if the person charged an/or convicted of this crime
> >> were doing this in
> >> Wikipedia, or one of the other Projects, would the
> >> case involve us.
> >>
> >> Just curious.
> >>
> >> Marc Riddell
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> foundation-l mailing list
> >> foundation-l at lists.wikimedia.org
> >> Unsubscribe:
> >>
> > http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> foundation-l mailing list
> >> foundation-l at lists.wikimedia.org
> >> Unsubscribe:
> >>
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> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > ______________________________________________________________________________
> > ______
> > Be a better pen pal.
> > Text or chat with friends inside Yahoo! Mail. See how.
> > http://overview.mail.yahoo.com/
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > foundation-l mailing list
> > foundation-l at lists.wikimedia.org
> > Unsubscribe: http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2007 14:11:43 -0800
> From: "Robert Rohde" <rarohde at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] GFDL and Relicensing
> To: "Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List"
> <foundation-l at lists.wikimedia.org>
> Message-ID:
> <b4da1c6e0711221411j7b2e774eje4b2728238657d2d at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> On Nov 22, 2007 1:22 PM, Ray Saintonge <saintonge at telus.net> wrote:
>
> > Robert Rohde wrote:
> > > Some of us, myself included, believe that commercial reuse SHOULD BE
> > > burdensome. Or more specifically, if a commercial publisher is going to
> > > profit on the back of content they didn't create and with no funds going
> > to
> > > the authors, then it should be dreadfully obvious that the content in
> > > question is free content, and not the run-of-the-mill restricted content
> > > that they always publish. In some ways the GFDL is overboard in that
> > regard
> > > (i.e. you don't need a long license document for a single image), but I
> > > believe publishers should be burdened with making their use of free
> > content
> > > clearly identified.
> > >
> > > Also, I realize that not everyone feels the same way about being
> > burdensome.
> > I have no problem with commercial reuse. In a way it seems to me that
> > NC licences are counterproductive. We want the viral nature of the
> > licence to infect the commercial sites.
> >
> > <snip>
>
>
> Actually, I would be careful about this language. I don't want them
> "infected". If they choose to embrace GFDL / CC-SA of their own free will,
> then fine. But free content shouldn't be a disease that ambushes
> unsuspecting publishers. To that end, being very clear about the
> implications of these licenses is important.
>
> Frankly calling it "free content" actually feels like a misnomer when using
> this "free" material comes with a heavy burden that can hypothetical deprive
> people of income from their own work.
>
> -Robert Rohde
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2007 17:35:12 -0500
> From: Dan Rosenthal <swatjester at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] FW: A Crime in Missouri
> To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List
> <foundation-l at lists.wikimedia.org>
> Message-ID: <D8235D60-E698-4B07-8B3D-8777EDC6676C at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
>
> Depends on the jurisdiction.
>
> -Dan
>
> On Nov 22, 2007, at 4:59 PM, Marc Riddell wrote:
>
> > Thanks, Brigitte, I didn't know. I'd also be curious as to how the law
> > defines stalking and harassment.
> >
> > Marc
> >
> > on 11/22/07 2:57 PM, Birgitte SB at birgitte_sb at yahoo.com wrote:
> >
> >> I happen to live near this town and do know the
> >> details [1].
> >>
> >> I can't see how this could involve WMF. The idea is
> >> to make it possible to prosecute individuals who
> >> intentionally harass others online. It has nothing to
> >> do with the means of harassment. The only way I see
> >> WMF being affected is if the person charged with
> >> harassment is a checkuser or employee or something.
> >>
> >> BirgitteSB
> >>
> >> [1]
> >> http://us.f303.mail.yahoo.com/ym/Compose?box=Foundation%2dl&Mid=2863_1062078_3
> >> 2964_3161_498_0_31904_1095_70994589
> >> &inc=&Search=&YY=11233&y5beta=yes&y5beta=ye
> >> s&order=down&sort=date&pos=0
> >>
> >> --- Marc Riddell <michaeldavid86 at comcast.net> wrote:
> >>
> >>> This copy was meant for this List.
> >>>
> >>> Marc
> >>> ----------
> >>> From: Marc Riddell <michaeldavid86 at comcast.net>
> >>> Reply-To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List
> >>> <foundation-l at lists.wikimedia.org>
> >>> Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2007 14:20:08 -0500
> >>> To: WikiEN List <wikien-l at lists.wikimedia.org>
> >>> Cc: Foundation List
> >>> <foundation-l at lists.wikimedia.org>
> >>> Subject: [Foundation-l] A Crime in Missouri
> >>>
> >>> This is a question for you legal eagles out there:
> >>>
> >>> A town in Missouri (USA) has made on-line stalking
> >>> and harassment a crime. I
> >>> don't know much of the details, I just got it from
> >>> CNN. But my question is,
> >>> if the person charged an/or convicted of this crime
> >>> were doing this in
> >>> Wikipedia, or one of the other Projects, would the
> >>> case involve us.
> >>>
> >>> Just curious.
> >>>
> >>> Marc Riddell
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> foundation-l mailing list
> >>> foundation-l at lists.wikimedia.org
> >>> Unsubscribe:
> >>>
> >> http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> foundation-l mailing list
> >>> foundation-l at lists.wikimedia.org
> >>> Unsubscribe:
> >>>
> >> http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ______________________________________________________________________________
> >> ______
> >> Be a better pen pal.
> >> Text or chat with friends inside Yahoo! Mail. See how.
> >> http://overview.mail.yahoo.com/
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> foundation-l mailing list
> >> foundation-l at lists.wikimedia.org
> >> Unsubscribe: http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > foundation-l mailing list
> > foundation-l at lists.wikimedia.org
> > Unsubscribe: http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2007 17:48:32 -0500
> From: Marc Riddell <michaeldavid86 at comcast.net>
> Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] FW: A Crime in Missouri
> To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List
> <foundation-l at lists.wikimedia.org>
> Message-ID: <C36B716F.A977%michaeldavid86 at comcast.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>
> Dan,
>
> In you experience, how do some of the definitions go? Isn't, particularly,
> harassment a subjective thing?
>
> Marc
>
>
> on 11/22/07 5:35 PM, Dan Rosenthal at swatjester at gmail.com wrote:
>
> > Depends on the jurisdiction.
> >
> > -Dan
> >
> > On Nov 22, 2007, at 4:59 PM, Marc Riddell wrote:
> >
> >> Thanks, Brigitte, I didn't know. I'd also be curious as to how the law
> >> defines stalking and harassment.
> >>
> >> Marc
> >>
> >> on 11/22/07 2:57 PM, Birgitte SB at birgitte_sb at yahoo.com wrote:
> >>
> >>> I happen to live near this town and do know the
> >>> details [1].
> >>>
> >>> I can't see how this could involve WMF. The idea is
> >>> to make it possible to prosecute individuals who
> >>> intentionally harass others online. It has nothing to
> >>> do with the means of harassment. The only way I see
> >>> WMF being affected is if the person charged with
> >>> harassment is a checkuser or employee or something.
> >>>
> >>> BirgitteSB
> >>>
> >>> [1]
> >>> http://us.f303.mail.yahoo.com/ym/Compose?box=Foundation%2dl&Mid=2863_1062078
> >>> _3
> >>> 2964_3161_498_0_31904_1095_70994589
> >>> &inc=&Search=&YY=11233&y5beta=yes&y5beta=ye
> >>> s&order=down&sort=date&pos=0
> >>>
> >>> --- Marc Riddell <michaeldavid86 at comcast.net> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> This copy was meant for this List.
> >>>>
> >>>> Marc
> >>>> ----------
> >>>> From: Marc Riddell <michaeldavid86 at comcast.net>
> >>>> Reply-To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List
> >>>> <foundation-l at lists.wikimedia.org>
> >>>> Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2007 14:20:08 -0500
> >>>> To: WikiEN List <wikien-l at lists.wikimedia.org>
> >>>> Cc: Foundation List
> >>>> <foundation-l at lists.wikimedia.org>
> >>>> Subject: [Foundation-l] A Crime in Missouri
> >>>>
> >>>> This is a question for you legal eagles out there:
> >>>>
> >>>> A town in Missouri (USA) has made on-line stalking
> >>>> and harassment a crime. I
> >>>> don't know much of the details, I just got it from
> >>>> CNN. But my question is,
> >>>> if the person charged an/or convicted of this crime
> >>>> were doing this in
> >>>> Wikipedia, or one of the other Projects, would the
> >>>> case involve us.
> >>>>
> >>>> Just curious.
> >>>>
> >>>> Marc Riddell
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> foundation-l mailing list
> >>>> foundation-l at lists.wikimedia.org
> >>>> Unsubscribe:
> >>>>
> >>> http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> foundation-l mailing list
> >>>> foundation-l at lists.wikimedia.org
> >>>> Unsubscribe:
> >>>>
> >>> http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ____________________________________________________________________________
> >>> __
> >>> ______
> >>> Be a better pen pal.
> >>> Text or chat with friends inside Yahoo! Mail. See how.
> >>> http://overview.mail.yahoo.com/
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> foundation-l mailing list
> >>> foundation-l at lists.wikimedia.org
> >>> Unsubscribe: http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> foundation-l mailing list
> >> foundation-l at lists.wikimedia.org
> >> Unsubscribe: http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > foundation-l mailing list
> > foundation-l at lists.wikimedia.org
> > Unsubscribe: http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
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>
> End of foundation-l Digest, Vol 44, Issue 107
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