[Foundation-l] Wikikids

GerardM gerard.meijssen at gmail.com
Wed May 30 09:27:54 UTC 2007


On 5/30/07, Florence Devouard <Anthere9 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> GerardM wrote:
> > Hoi,
> > You indicate that Wikijunior is a WMF trademark... I would not be so
> sure
> > about that. Is there somewhere a link that indicates this is the case ?
> registration in the USA.
> Filled up on date 2006-07-07
> Last information : dec 06
> GOODS AND/OR SERVICES International Class: 041 Class Status: Active
> Providing information in the field of general encyclopedic knowledge for
> children via the Internet Basis: 1(a) First Use Date: 2004-10-24 First
> Use in Commerce Date: 2004-11-07
> ant
> > NB a domain does not make a trademark
> > Thanks,
> >    GerardM
> >
> > On 5/30/07, Robert Horning <robert_horning at netzero.net> wrote:
> >> Gerard Dummer wrote:
> >>> Hi,
> >>>
> >>> My name is Gerard Dummer and one of the people who started WikiKids.nl
> .
> >> WikiKids started as a project to write an encyclopedia for and by
> children.
> >>> When we started with this project (janauary 2006) we had no idea what
> >> you could do with a wiki. And we didn't know if it would work. But we
> knew
> >> that we started a project that could have a great impact on education.
> That
> >> we could realize an authentic learning environment for children. Unlike
> any
> >> other project before to integrate ICT in education. To be precise: for
> >> children in the age of 8 - 13.
> >>> Along the way we learned quite a lot of things. That is to say about
> the
> >> technical aspect as well as the educational aspects. This is a process
> that
> >> continues untill now and I believe will for the next few years.
> >>> There are two main goals: 1)provide information for children to use in
> >> assigments 2) create a writing environment.
> >>> This is a projected that is most of all an educational project. On the
> >> OnderwijsPortaal (EductionPortal) teacher can find different
> lessonplans,
> >> webquests, why they should use WikiKids in their classes and so on:
> >> http://kennisnet.wikia.com/wikikids/wiki/Portaal:Onderwijs
> >>> This project differs from WikiJunior as mentioned by Mathias.
> >>> @Robert. I have no experiences with other WikiMedia projects so I
> can't
> >> say anything about that. I very much believe that children can write
> >> articles for eachother. That doesn't mean that the articles are all
> perfect.
> >> But even an article that isn't finished is an opportunity for other
> children
> >> to rewrite that article to improve it. That is of course trying to use
> a
> >> weakness as a strength.
> >>> I am very sorry to hear that there where any hostilities. I can't
> image
> >> that we would be hostile to any other Wikimediagroup. I hope this is a
> >> misunderstanding or that there is an other explanation.
> >>> Also if you could tell something more about what you mean with a
> >> "motivated leader". What "next step" should be taken?
> >>> @Matthias
> >>> Anyone can contribute on WikiKids. Children, teens and adults. Just as
> >> long as the subjects are suitable. Just as on Vikidia teenagers also
> play an
> >> important role. Some are sysop.
> >>> I agree also with that fact that children can write about a subject.
> But
> >> we also try to stimulate to write an article with a group of children
> or a
> >> class. Everyone can contribute that way.
> >>> Gerard Dummer
> >>> www.wikikids.nl
> >>>
> >> This mailing list, in addition to general business about the Wikimedia
> >> Foundation, also tends to be a discussion forum for new project ideas.
> >> This can take the form of both non-wiki as well as wiki-based projects,
> >> and a major reason for this is due to the new projects page on the Meta
> >> wiki requesting that individuals wishing to start new projects like
> this
> >> contact this very list.  I've been lurking (and occasionally adding my
> >> $0.02 cents along the way) on this mailing list for more than two
> years,
> >> and I've seen these proposals come and go.  Some have been successful
> >> and have produced their own independent communities, and a couple have
> >> even become full Wikimedia sister projects.  I've even been involved
> >> with some of that effort on a few different levels.
> >>
> >> What I'm talking about here with a "motivated leader" in regards to
> >> actually starting a new Wikimedia sister project, as opposed to
> >> advertising some wiki-based website that you are seeking some
> >> cooperation, is that you can't "own" the idea yourself, no matter how
> >> hard you try.  There is a certain bureaucratic process that goes into
> >> establishing a sister project, and I'm beginning to see a bit of wisdom
> >> to that process as well.  I should note that 95% (I think it is
> actually
> >> worse than this) of all new project ideas are shot down or left in a
> >> sort of "development hell" (to borrow a term from the motion picture
> >> industry) where a couple of ideas keep recurring, but don't seem to
> take
> >> off for some reason or another.  A children's oriented encyclopedia
> >> happens to be one of those recurring ideas, I should point out, and you
> >> nor those you are working with are the first to come up with this idea.
> >> I don't think you will be the last to bring it up in this forum either.
> >>
> >> A small number of these projects actually get to the point that instead
> >> of "waiting" for approval from the WMF, they simply go and start their
> >> own independent wiki server.  The disadvantage of this is that the
> >> relationship with the other Wikimedia projects tends to be quite a bit
> >> weaker, and many contributors don't see a relationship at all.  The
> >> advantages and disadvantages of becoming a Wikimedia sister project are
> >> too numerous to mention in a short post, but I could write a multi page
> >> paper on that from my experience at this point.  Perhaps I should for
> an
> >> upcoming Wikimania :)
> >>
> >> To cut to the point, you have been trying to defend your project here
> on
> >> this mailing list, and I'm still not entirely sure what it is that you
> >> would like to see happen ultimately with this project proposal of yours
> >> if everything went exactly as you would like it to happen.  If your
> goal
> >> here was merely to let people know that your project exists and that
> you
> >> are recruiting individuals to help out, by itself that isn't a terrible
> >> thing, but I would note that there are much more effective places and
> >> means to "advertise" a non-foundation wiki than on this Foundation
> >> mailing list.  I've given some mild criticism, but at the same time
> this
> >> is something that I too would like to developed further.  I should also
> >> note that nearly all of the "regular" people who post to this list are
> >> usually *very* busy with life, and what free time they have it already
> >> devoted to some Wikimedia project, whether as an administrator or key
> >> user/community leader on one of the Wikimedia sister projects or with
> >> some aspect of the Wikimedia Foundation.  I would much more strongly
> >> recommend that you post something on one of the Village Pump pages on
> >> Wikipedia if this is your goal, and you will have much more success for
> >> your effort.
> >>
> >> The reason I bring up Wikijunior is because there are people who read
> >> the discussion pages for Wikijunior that may have a bit more time on
> >> their hands, looking for something more to do that is very similar in
> >> nature to what they are already doing with Wikijunior.  And posting a
> >> message on those talk pages is not likely to be lost in the pages of
> >> debate that sometimes rage on the Village Pump or other high volume
> >> discussion forii.  There are topics on the English Wikijunior talk page
> >> that are over a year old.... and they do get read by new users all of
> >> the time.  The French Wikijunior talk page has only a couple of
> comments
> >> on it, and the Dutch Wikijunior talk page is still blank.  The Dutch
> >> Wikibooks "Staff Lounge"
> >> (http://nl.wikibooks.org/wiki/Wikibooks:Lerarenkamer) does have some
> >> modest discussion about Wikijunior, including some recent comments from
> >> what I can see that the Wikimedia trademark "Wikijunior" in the form of
> >> (http://www.wikijunior.nl) is currently redirecting to your project.
> >> I'll leave that point alone for now, but that may be a minor problem
> >> that perhaps should be corrected.
> >>
> >> I hope that your site remains successful, and there certainly is a
> >> learning curve to try and maintain a healthy wiki site.
> >>
> >> Robert Horning
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> foundation-l mailing list
> >> foundation-l at lists.wikimedia.org
> >> http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
> >>
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