[Foundation-l] In defence of Google

[Anthony]

On 1/19/07, Gerard Meijssen <gerard.meijssen at gmail.com> wrote:
> Citizendium can only be considered "Free knowledge" when it is indeed
> Free knowledge.

And right now, Citizendium *is* "Free knowledge".

> You mention that they may use the CC-by-ND license. Not
> only is that license incompatible with the GFDL, being more restrictive,
> it will prevent them from using the Wikipedia content as its source.
> This is likely to brake the back of their project as I am sure that a
> sufficient large group of people will create a class action that
> Citizendium cannot win.

I'm not sure what you mean by a class action, but yes, I agree that CZ
will almost surely not survive if they go with CC-by-NC (which was
what is being considered, not CC-by-ND).

> > If CZ becomes successful without being a fork of Wikipedia (and
> > they're apparently going to try), then it *won't* have the same data
> > as Wikipedia.  It's unlikely it'll even have "more or less the same
> > data".
> >
> > But thinking about this, I guess it's unclear to me what this has to
> > do with Google being important to the dissemination of Free Content.
> > Is the "our" part of that important?  Is this about whether or not CZ
> > will be Free Content?  I just learned today that they're considering
> > CC-by-NC.  I guess if they choose that license it'll matter.  But
> > Google doesn't seem to rank Free Content sites any higher than others.
> >
> Here the law makes all the difference and prevent CZ from using the
> Wikipedia content.

As of this Saturday, CZ is going to stop using Wikipedia content by
default, at least on a trial basis.

> >> There is every reason to acknowledge when you benefit from the business
> >> practices of a friendly organisation. The absolute minimum that this
> >> realisation does is to allow you to acknowledge what it is that makes us
> >> a success. When we are smart it means we maintain friendly relations
> >> with those organisations that enable our success. Google fits that bill.
> >> Microsoft does not appreciate Wikipedia for what it does and as a
> >> consequence suffers in its appreciation. I do not touch Microsoft's
> >> search engine with a barge pole because of their bias. It is also
> >> something that enables the argument why Microsoft is "evil".
> >>
> >
> > I'll have to think more about that.  Personally I think Microsoft's
> > search engine is crap, but I'm using their OS to write this message,
> > so if one is going to have to acknowledge every company which has
> > contributed to making Wikipedia possible, I don't think you can ignore
> > Microsoft.
> >
> The fact that anyone uses a Microsoft OS makes no difference to the
> quality of their search engine.

I didn't mean to imply it did.

> >
> >> If you want to improve on what Google does, please do.
> >>
> >
> > If I get the time and/or the money, I will.  But in the meantime, I'm
> > not going to make them out to be this great company that does no
> > wrong.
> >
> > I mean, if you want to improve on what Microsoft does, please do.  Do
> > you see how that statement isn't really helpful?
> >
> You can improve on Microsoft by not choosing their product as the basis
> of your entry to the computerised world. You can have a BSD, Apple,
> Linux desktop instead.

So am I improving on Google by using a different search engine?  What
if I use Scroogle (which, actually, I do)?

> > If Google didn't exist at all, I don't think Wikipedia would be any worse off.
> >
> There is anecdotal evidence that you are SO wrong.
>
Interesting.  I'm not aware of any such evidence.  Yes, a lot of
contributors to Wikipedia happened to first hear about it due to a
Google search.  But that doesn't mean they wouldn't have heard about
it if they used some other search engine.

Personally I think it was Slashdot that brought me to Google.  So I
guess they're to blame for my arrival.  But then again, it might have
been Google.  I'm pretty sure it was one or the other.

But I don't even remember what search engine I used before Google.  I
think it was Yahoo.  Do Wikipedia pages rank high in Yahoo?  Ah,
Yahoo, I remember when *that* used to be the corporation that everyone
loved and praised.  Now they're helping the Chinese put people in
jail.  I wonder how long before Google does that little bit of evil.
AFAIK they haven't actively helped the government put people in
jail...yet.

Anthony