[Foundation-l] wikiseek & wikiwax is out

Gerard Meijssen gerard.meijssen at gmail.com
Wed Jan 17 21:13:26 UTC 2007

Open source means for me software. Software pure and simple. Wikipedia 
is NOT Open Source, MediaWiki is Open Source. Wikipedia is Open Content.

Your notion that open source means no adverts, is just your notion. 
Perfectly valid to you however it is perfectly clear how Google adds 
have to be enabled in a MediaWiki environment. So effectively Open 
Source does advertisements when this is enabled. Does this mean that to 
you MediaWiki is not Open Source/Free Software??  The two examples, 
wikiseek and wikiwax, are just two applications that you are aware off. 
There are more. What Ilse did to support the content of the Dutch 
Wikipedia is more advanced than these two. They had at some stage even a 
diagram with other related articles to the article you were looking for.

Wikia may indeed come up with a search engine, when it is to do the 
whole of the web, there will be a need for a lot of technology, 
innovation and money. You have to be fair, Wikia DOES use advertisements 
to generate its profit. This is imho perfectly fine. I do not understand 
why Wikia may use adverts and these other companies may not. I also fail 
to see that a ghost is out of a bottle; there are a number of people and 
organisations that can contribute to what the Wikimedia Foundation aims 
to do. I do think we should collaborate with many of them because it 
will help us achieve our goals. When a collaboration comes with implied 
requirements or expectations that are detrimental to our aims, we do not 
collaborate. When you represent the yacy people and you expect a blanket 
"no advertisements" or no "commercial use" then your aims are not 
necessarily compatible with our aims.

There is a procedure for suggesting new projects.. I suggest you follow 
that one.



thomasasta at gmx.net schreef:
> Hello David,
> right. Wikiseek is from the idea and architecture not bad, wikiwax already there, I do not like the ads and timestamp of launch.
> Ok so we see how wikiasari might look and it shows, that wikiseek and yacysearch are faster and exaggerated done by private persons than the wikia company. So this shows, that building a community with each member running a p2p search engine node is the way to go. Together we are stronger than 3 wikis servers or the google ones. 
> But what is important for the foundation list still remains, that the wikipedia websites and urls are very good content, we need not only in google, but as well in the p2p search engine. So i would like to see more persons indexing wikipedia. Maybe the foundation of wikimedia can support this process wirh a few servers please for yacy. And then: besides 
> a) private engagement in a community and 
> b) indexing wikipedia sites we need 
> c) as well a instituional support for open source search engines and open source seach indexed / databases. Open source means for me, without advertisements as well. And this is why the wikimediafoundation needs an open search engine and database as well. yacy could be this code for the projct. We do not need to develop code for the application, I just want a project of wikimedia foundation to run a small yacy server to index the wikipedia in each country languag please.
> Would be nice, if someone can organize this and the discussion is as well done here on the foundation list. We could make a wiki-webpage for this project, we then could edit some proposals for it.
> Does anyone of wikimedia foundationm agree and could provide a wiki-page on the foundation homepage to announce some search index servers (yacy) for the whole wikipedia content?
> Thanks and regards.
> As gini is out of the bottle with wikiseek, we do not need to wait for wikiasari, we just need a community doing it with yacy.
> -------- Original-Nachricht --------
> Datum: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 03:11:53 -0600
> Von: David Strauss <david at fourkitchens.com>
> An: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List <foundation-l at lists.wikimedia.org>
> Betreff: Re: [Foundation-l] wikiseek & wikiwax is out
>> Please reexamine what *free* knowledge means in the context of Wikipedia
>> and the GFDL. Wikipedia's sense of "free" includes other people's
>> freedom to profit from the work.
>> Regarding brands, "wiki" is not one. Wiki is a type of technology and
>> (possibly) a type of community. Wikimedia, Wikipedia, and Wikia are
>> brands.
>> And before you accuse Wikiseek of being a corrupt commercial preemption
>> of Wikiasari, you should remember something: not only does Wikiasari
>> only exist in rumor, it's probably also commercial. Neither Wikiasari
>> nor Wikiseek is a charitable project of the Wikimedia Foundation.
>>> -------- Original-Nachricht --------
>>> Datum: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 18:09:33 -0600
>>> Von: David Strauss <david at fourkitchens.com>
>>>> I don't understand the critical reaction to Wikiseek. No one here would
>>>> criticize a new search engine that indexed the whole web *including*
>>>> Wikipedia, so there's no reason to criticize a search engine that
>>>> indexes *only* Wikipedia.
>>> - google does not brand itself wiki
>>> - google is not doing this before a wiki *open search* launch is done
>>> - it is a trojaner, as google is behind it with its ads.
>>> - it shows, that wikimedia needs an own open search engine for wikipedia
>> content and links/web outside.
>>>> I also don't see how Wikiseek could hurt Wikipedia. If anything, more
>>>> avenues to Wikipedia will *increase* the number of readers and editors.
>>> - one is making money from my work, searching hoursly for the best
>> weblinks for the article of "pregnancy"? They are doing money with my free
>> editors work and manual linksearch, either they make the database open or this
>> is a GPL violation.
>>> - it is a misleading of the brand for wikipedia and for wikia´s
>> wikiasari open search
>>> - ir opens the hint for google´s bribery of wikipedia, as the
>> advertisements of google finance wikipedia
>>> - it is a google trojaner in disguise for wikiasari
>>>> And in the event that Wikiseek is successful, the Foundation might even
>>>> receive some sizable contributions.
>>> Totally wrong: we do nto want that money. Wikipedia´s contimbution it
>> the community and not money from the google syndication ads. Google cannot
>> buy the community. This is a hit for corruption.
>>> and what about the second clone:  http://www.wikiwax.com/
>>> ????

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