[Foundation-l] Fair use images

[Anthony DiPierro]

On 3/10/06, Gregory Maxwell <gmaxwell at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 3/10/06, Anthony DiPierro <wikilegal at inbox.org> wrote:
> [snip]
> > > I don't agree at all.  Our goal is to make a free content
> > > encyclopedia. When we speak of free we mean freedom and not cost.  ND
> > > content is not free.
> > >
> > Neither is "fair use content", of course.
>
> And I went into an extensive explination of why fair use is a
> reasonable exception, but you ignored it.
>
Because your explanation of the reasonable exception applied equally
to ND content, moreso even.

> > No, you misunderstand.  ND images would only be allowed in situations
> > where fair use images are currently allowed.
>
> Explain how this would work?
> So would we only allow images while, while being ND, we could also
> claim fair use?
> Guess what: We already permit that on enwiki.
>
> If that isn't what you mean, how can you claim that they would only be
> allowed where where fair use images are allowed?
>
I'm suggesting that this be the policy, of course.  That ND images
only be used in situations where there is no free alternative, i.e.
the situations where fair use is supposed to be limited to right now.

> > > It isn't acceptable to give up freedom to gain a little more quality content.
> > >
> > I just don't see what freedom is being given up.  An image which *is*
> > licensed under CC-ND is more free than an image which is not.
>
> Of all the outragious bullshit...  Sure, an image under CC-ND is more
> free than a random unlicensed work.  It would not be more free than
> the free images they would replace if we permitted them.
>
I never suggested replacing free images with non-free ones.

> The only people I've ever encountered that had interest in by-nd were
> photographers I found on forums and nagged to come submit works to
> wikipedia.

Count me as a first, then.

> > Hey, if your answer is to remove all non-free images completely from
> > Wikipedia, you have no objection from me.  My suggestion was merely to
> > replace one set of non-free images with another set of non-free images
> > which were more free.
>
> You are either misrepresenting your position (that it really is to
> only perform a 1:1 replacement), or your argument is pointless because
> we already permit it  (If a work is fair use we don't care about its
> license terms, you can upload BY-NC-ND stuff all day as fair use on
> enwiki).

And you can also upload so called "fair use images" which aren't
BY-NC-ND (by the way, my suggestion was BY-ND, not BY-NC-ND).

Anthony