[Foundation-l] English Wikipedia ethnocentric policy affects other communities

[Sam Korn]

On 12/22/06, Gerard Meijssen <gerard.meijssen at gmail.com> wrote:
> Sam Korn schreef:
> > I don't understand what you mean.  If you're saying that you intend
> > that everyone who wants to occasionally HELP OUT the wiki by doing RC
> > patrol should install all these fonts for languages they don't
> > understand, you're living in a world completely disconnected from
> > reality.  We don't make huge demands of our users before we allow them
> > to fight vandalism.  Indeed, all they need to do is provide a user
> > name and a password.
> >
> > What about the non-tech-savvy people?  What about those who edit from
> > public computers?  Do you intend to discriminate against them?
> >
> What about them? Is it an excuse to discriminate against people who use
> their standard user name?

No, of course it isn't and if you bothered to read what I've written
you'd know I think so.  That you don't can only suggest that you can't
be bothered to read what I write, else you'd know that I DON'T SUPPORT
EN.WIKIPEDIA'S CURRENT POLICY, just that I understand its reasoning.

> I think you do not appreciate that
> discrimination is exactly what this is about. You are quite happy to
> discriminate against people who use their Single User Login. It must be
> all right because it makes things easy for you.

So you're accusing me of discrimination.  This is completely absurd
and offensive.  Again, if you bothered to read what I've written,
you'd see that I'm trying to find some way of reconciling the problems
en.wikipedia has with the implementation of SUL.

You appear to be fixated on damning en.wikipedia.  You seem unable to
comprehend why en.wikipedia has instituted these policies, because,
apparently, SUL is going to wash them all away.

Please demonstrate you are trying to understand my points.

> So if people do not install fonts they see blocks or question marks.
> This will effectively have the effect that people will eventually want
> to install fonts. That is not a bad thing.

Yes, blackmail is a wonderful way to get things done.  I applaud you.

> As to public computers, it is
> reasonable to ask the proprietors of these public computers to at least
> install the fonts that come with the operating system that they run.

I'd agree.  But it's still not fair to these users if the owners won't.

And we seem to be drifting from the issue.

> Well no, when you have ผู้ใช้:ธวัชชัย and ยชชธช้:ใผ you can notice that there
> is a difference. The find function of your browser will be quite able to
> discriminate between the two.

And when only one appears?  Because I'm obviously going to keep all
foreign names on my clipboard to paste into the find box every time,
am I not?

> Without fonts installed you will not be
> able to make this distinction this way. If making things easy is an
> excuse for discrimination then by all means.

Again, you're accusing me of discrimination, when all I'm doing is
pointing out legitimate concerns.

> But do not be surprised the
> extend that people outside of the English language Wikipedia community
> find it problematic to discuss issues where POV is an issue. At the
> Belgrade Wikipedia meeting this was exactly one of the issues raised. I
> am sure you can find the presentation where this was expressed.

Do you want to explain what relevance this has to the rest of the
thread?  It's lost on me.

> By being less then welcoming, by approaching people as suspect you kill
> the goose that lays the golden eggs.

You really haven't heard a word I've said, have you?

> Yes, there is vandalism to an
> extend that we do not have elsewhere, but at the same time the resources
> of the English language Wikipedia are equal to none.

This is interesting.  Would you care to tell me what these resources are?

Certainly development is driven by en.wikipedia's needs to some
extent, but these needs are often replicated in other wikis before too
long.

Now, this post has been less than entirely civil, and I apologise.
But I now understand why David, having had a similar conversation with
you, felt you were saying "fuck you" to him.  You dismiss others'
concerns without a shred of logic and don't listen to them at all.
This is rude and inconsiderate.

-- 
Sam