[Foundation-l] [Wikichix-l] Moderating an open list

Puppy puppy at KillerChihuahua.com
Tue Dec 5 15:08:34 UTC 2006

 From what I read below, we are in agreement - yet many women feel it 
would be beneficial to have somewhere to discuss bias where they do not 
have to worry about immediately being attacked for even bringing up the 
bias issue. That is not, as yet, here.

Andre Engels wrote:
> 2006/12/5, Puppy <puppy at killerchihuahua.com>:
>> It was about a solution to women not being comfortable on WP due to
>> bias. Whether that solution is a good one or not was /not/ being
>> addressed.
> Well, I felt it was, but maybe it just means I and others have not been
> clear in our arguments. I think it would be a very bad solution, because it
> would not help one iota. If we want to make Wikipedia more woman-friendly,
> then Wikipedia is the place to work. That might sound like a triviality, but
> someone who finds Wikipedia an unhospitable place for them, will still find
> it unhospitable if there is a small secluded corner to talk with others of
> the same feeling.
>> So why are you dismissing it? I think "it doesn't help" is the best ground
>>> for dismissal I can think of.
>> I didn't dismiss it. That's what "firmly on the fence" means - that I do
>> not support nor oppose it, and am still considering the concept. And I
>> have yet to see any reason why it would not help. I have reasons why it
>> would, and I have seen concerns that it might hurt the project in other
>> ways, but I have not seen any reason given that it would not help.
> Any action against sexism and gender bias should be taken on Wikipedia (and
> the other projects and mailing lists) itself. I don't see how it helps to
> have a friendly away place if people have to get back to Wikipedia anyway.
> If they feel it's too sexist (I personally do not have the feeling it's
> rampant, but it undoubtedly occurs), they will have problems with it with or
> without Wikichix. And if they want their discussions to have some practical
> effect, they should probably do them elsewhere as well.
> If the goal is to get more women on mailing lists, I can see it would
> probably be effective. If the goal is to get their voice heard, I'm
> doubtful. If the goal is to diminish sexism on Wikipedia and the mailing
> lists, I'm quite convinced it is not.

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