[Foundation-l] Montenegrin request for new language wikipedia

Darko Bulatovic mail at itam.ws
Sat Dec 2 21:57:19 UTC 2006

David Gerard wrote:
> On 02/12/06, Darko Bulatovic <mail at itam.ws> wrote:
>> Dont put words in my mouth, it is rude thing to do. As this is not key
>> it is just one fact in the history of Balkan. And Balkan is not UK. And
>> this comparison just shows that you don't have a clue what you talk about.

I just asked people here to explain me with what facts they have build 
up their opinion. No one did that. They just gave stereotypes and 
assumptions. And now I will give some data.

I will give one part translation of one linguist on this matter:
Sorbonne before 25 years had opened class on which was studied language 
which we called serbo-croatian and which today our students study under 
3 names: Serbian, Croatian, Bosnian. Personally I think there will be 
place for Montenegrin. I am glad that that languages and literature are 
present on Sorbonne with thanks of me and my former colleague which has 
doctorate on "Njegos"(Montenegrin Philosopher). Importance and image of 
our University obligate us to maintain level and quality of study and we 
improve it all the times.

POL LUI TOMA, chief of Slavic Class(Katedra) on University of Sorbonne 

So David Montenegrin is matter of quality on Sorbonne but not for you.

Same linguist :

Q: Which one linguistic reasons are that official French science 
admitted Bosnian or Bosnjak language and started to study it on Sorbonne?
A: We are not here in domain of science, we are in social-linguistic 
domain. If they which speak one language and it is base  on some 
differences, and if they see that they language is different and if 
their rules that differ even little, they can state that this is 
language which have different name. Why not?

Same linguist:

Difference between Language and dialect is very subjective matter. Is 
the korzikans language or dialect? Some of Korsikans will say it is 
language, and others will say it is one of Italian dialects.

So Much about your objectivity in this. Specially claiming that 
Montenegrin is dialect of Serbian as that is ridiculous and just show 
that you don't have a clue about South Slavic languages.

One reference to old times:
Ljubomir Nenadovic in "Letters" from 1858
" I have found i Montenegrin schools they learn to talk Montenegrin 

Simo Matavulj in " Notes of one writer" he cite words of one Montenegrin 
Toma Vukotica about seeking some theatre group for performing " Balkan 
Queen"(Montenegrin performance) made by Montenegrin King Nikola:
" Are indeed that people from street can speak our language, pure 
Montenegrin, like it is written? Let God save me! You would not 
understand every third word.... even the best actors in Belgrade cant 
talk out language...."

And newer date:
Linguist Dubravko Skiljan 1996
Closest to be called as separated language is not Croatian it is 
Montenegrin - at that moment when they put "SH, DZJ, ZJ" like separate 
phonemes, which will probably have, which is not necessary, and separate 
graphical symbols, they will make far more dedicated step than what was 
done here in purpose of language distinctions . Because that is 
something that clearly make difference language structure - number or 
system of phoneme(fonem))

And to understand this problematic people need to know history of 
language in this region. But they seems do have time to negate and to 
make assumptions but not to study this problematics. I know it is easier.

But I think that Klein is right, many last replies was just with no 
productive value. I will wait for official explanation from committee, 
so we could go further in trying to solve this problem, as this 
discussion didn't give me any objective fact or argument that could 
support this denial of request.

Thank you
Darko Bulatovic

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