[Foundation-l] Re: Authoring on wikijunior : providing private information.

[Anthere]

Robert Scott Horning wrote:

> Anthere wrote:
> 
>> Nicholas Moreau wrote:
>>
>>> Wikijunior, as many already know, is publishing a series of books, 
>>> the first
>>> of which is funded by the mysterious Beck Foundation.
>>>
>>> This message has worried many of us:
>>>
>>> "According to the United States Code for registering a copyrighted 
>>> work, you
>>> must include your nationality (what country you claim citizenship in) 
>>> and
>>> the country you are currently residing in, if different.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ??????
>>
>> Can you cite this piece of law ?
>> Is the law the same in all countries ? If not, why having to respect 
>> this one ?
>> If this is correct, should we follow the law ? Or explore a new 
>> territory ?
>>
>> I am really not happy with the idea of crediting only those who will 
>> provide all this information. It is very contrary to my idea of what 
>> our project is. I am even less happy seeing editors should supposingly 
>> put that public on the net. What about everyone privacy ? When I buy a 
>> book by the way, nowhere is such an information provided on the book.
>>
>>
>> Can the lawyer guys here give some feedback on this issue ?
>>
>> Anthere
> 
> 
> I am not a "lawyer", but I have studied copyright law extensively and 
> feel competent to answer some of these questions.
> 
> U.S. copyright code does require this information if you are going to 
> formally "register" the copyrighted work.  The idea is that the author's 
> nationality directly influences what copyright laws apply to a given 
> piece of literature, even if it was originally published in a place that 
> is different from the nationality of the author.  For instance, French 
> law applies to French citizens for copyright even if the book was 
> originally published in the USA, with all of the gory details that go 
> with that issue as well.  This is information that is also required 
> under international copyright treaties as well.
> 
> For some more specific details of at least registration forms required 
> for U.S. publication and registration, see:  http://www.copyright.gov/
> 
> The information that I was requesting specifically when I wrote the 
> stuff in question at Wikijunior asking for the full complete name was 
> based on the registration forms from the above web site.  This is also a 
> matter of copyright law in the sense that we are asking for full details 
> from anybody that wants to make a copyright claim on something that is 
> found on Wikimedia content pages.  Other authors that may want to stay 
> anonymous can do so, but their ability to make a copyright claim later 
> is going to be much more difficult.  The U.S. copyright office does 
> require information about all potential copyright claims for a given work.
> 
> Although not specifically stated on all Wikimedia websites, there is an 
> implicit copyright applied to all content (except for older Wikinews 
> content that was previously public domain content).  We use various 
> "licenses" to permit redistirbution and duplication of the information, 
> but the copyright claim is still there.  If we want to enforce the GFDL 
> at some point due to somebody trying to abuse the content, at some point 
> we as a community will have to collect all of the information asked 
> above for each author in order to take the case to court and force the 
> copyright violator to comply with the GFDL (taking Wikipedia content and 
> claiming it as their own, for instance, under a propritary license).
> 
> BTW, if you buy a book all of that information can be found at the 
> national copyright registration office, even if it isn't specifically 
> provided inside the front cover of the book.  And that information is 
> going to be available generally through the internet anyway, but it may 
> be a little harder to find than simply a single click from the main page 
> of the on-line version of the book.
> 
> As far as being "very contrary to my idea of what our project is", I 
> don't see how asking for voluntary information about nationality is 
> contrary to the spirit of a Wiki.  It is not required if you don't want 
> to give the information, and as I pointed out is required if we want to 
> keep the information "free" and availble under a copyleft arrangement. 
> As far as privacy, that is up to you to decide on how much privacy you 
> want to have in your life.  If you are going to make waves in public 
> (like trying to enforce your copyrights), you need to make claims to 
> what you have written in a public manner.  Authors throughout time have 
> done this, and goes with the public nature of the written word.  Yes, 
> some authors may go to jail because of what they've written, and you can 
> point to many people who have had that happen throughout all of time. 
> That is what happens when you stick your neck out in public, and why in 
> general you as a citizen of whatever country you live in should try to 
> support free speech laws.
> 
> I tried to make a bug report on this earlier, asking for this 
> information to be collected as a part of the user record directly on 
> each Mediawiki project, but the bug report was squashed because the 
> developers felt this is something that should have been debated first 
> (presumably on Wikipedia by the comment of the one developer who opposed 
> the bug).  I still feel that this should be something that can and 
> should be collected for each user, on a voluntary basis.  From my 
> reading of the GFDL, this may even be required information if we want to 
> be able to enforce the GFDL.

I understand all what you read.

But I believe you are forgetting something in your reasonning.
And you make it doubly clear in your answer to me on wikibooks. You 
suggest that
* either an author could leave his name in the list and add all the 
information you are requesting OR
* the author can remove himself from the list of authors, and even 
possibly go for anonymous editing;

Just above, you wrote "Other authors that may want to stay
 > anonymous can do so..."

You here completely neglect the fact that for many editors, having their 
name amongst authors of a work offers a unique gift : being recognised 
for what they did. At least here on our projects, or at least on the 
printed wikijunior. Many will not have the desire of going to a tribunal 
to enforce their rights. I know I would not. I am happy if someone 
recognised that I wrote something. But would I spent money to ensure 
that someone does not illegally claim authorship and ownership over 
something I wrote, when this text is still free HERE ?

Putting all this information is ONLY REQUIRED if one wants to enforce 
the copyright. If someone does not wish to get involved in this, he does 
not need to put all this private information. If someone wants to 
participate to building a free resource, he should have the right to get 
the credit of his work, without being forced to provide private information.

What I find odd in the page you did on Wikibooks, and which is 
reinforced by the comment you left in the talk page, is that it appears 
as if there is no choice : either give private information, real name, 
country of birth, year of birth and so on and be an author with ability 
to enforce the copyright... or be just plain nothing. If some editors 
are willing to provide this information, I have no problem with it. But 
suggesting editors they should remove their name amongst authors or go 
anonymous if they do not agree to provide this information... is imho 
not good. I wish that our projects stay open, with some editors giving 
their adress and their shoe size if they wish, others only known under a 
pseudonyme, and others anonymous. We welcome it all. And everyone is worth.

I edited the page accordingly to clarify this to editors.

And yes, your request was not a bug, it is something to be debated. 
Developers were correct in their answer ihmo. We should be very careful 
about that Robert.