[Foundation-l] RE:New language policy

[ilooy]

2005/11/22, pikola Thierry <pikola24 at yahoo.fr>:
> According to the point 2 in
> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Proposed_policy_for_wikis_in_new_languages
> the language proposed must have a standard writing
> system.

And yet, there are some languages which have
more than one system of writing and which are
now very active Wikipedias. For example Esperanto
which has the "hatted" letters and yet which one
can read online spelled with the "h" convention or
the "x" which is very popular on the net.

> If we approve the creation of Wikipedias such as
> Andalusian Spanish, we would create a Wikipedia where
> the users will have to create their own standard.

Actually there are 2 well documented ways of
writing in Andalusian to showcase the difference
between it and Castilian. These are published
both in printed forma and online.

> written form of the Spanish speech from Andalusia.

If by "Spanish" you mean "from the Spanish area
of historical domain" this would also mean Catalan is
Spanish and Portuguese and Basque are "Spanish".
Of course you wouldn't look at matters this way.
Andalusian is distinct from Castilian.

Don't get hung up on the word "Spanish". Spain
is a nation of "autonomous" regions.

> Another problem of creating such Wikipedia is that the
> great majority of Andalusian speakers don't feel that
> they talk a different language than the rest of the
> Spanish speakers. Therefore, Wikimedia would become a
> non neutral part on the sociolinguistic discussion
> about language identity of Andalusian speakers. If we
> create an Andalusian Wikipedia we would agree on the
> claim that Andalusian is a separate language from
> Spanish.

This just sounds like a bit of "silly" talk to me.
Andalusian is distinct from Castilian. Yes they
are both spoken in the Iberian Peninsula but
the vast majority of Andalusian speakers if not
every single Andalusian is painfully aware that
their form of speech is considered substandard
to Castilian, which is a form of abuse and obvious
prejudice and discrimination. Do you want to
support this type of behavior?

> Another funny thing which should happen is that,
> taking into account that latinoamerican Spanish has
> significantly evolved from Andalusian Spanish, then,
> all the latinoamerican Spanish speakers should learn
> this special new writing system used in Wikipedia,
> adopting it to their local Spanish variation.

Funny? Perhaps to you, but I regard it as "silly"
talk once again. You seem to enjoy talking about
what "will" happen "if". The present is far different
from this "silly" idea.

> Therefore they should actually be members of the
> Andalusian Wikipedia. Then Andalucian will become one
> of the largest languages of the world ;oD (half
> kidding)

Mexican Spanish is markedly different from Andalusian.
Actually Puerto Rican, Cuban and Dominican and
others in the Caribean are much more like Andalusian.
They exhibit similar language traits and are historically
descended from Andalusian.

> Anyway, what I wanted to say is that I really think
> that Wikimedia Foundation should take much into
> account two points:
> Speakers identity and existence of a standard writing
> on that language.

In both cases, Andalusian would qualify for a distinct
and separate identity from Castilian. It has speakers
who are aware of their own separateness and it has
a working written form which is published both online
and on hard copy.

> I think that Wikimedia should not be active part of
> language creation, neither of language identity
> discusion.

Then other language wikipedias would need to be
halted. The issue isn't so simple. And politics in
many areas of the world not just Spain is sadly
a big problem in this regard. Francisco Franco
squelched the use of other languages in Spain
and promoted Castilian in order to give union to
his dictatorship. If someone hasn't lived in Spain
and does not know Andalusian it would perhaps
be difficult to appreciate the facts of the situation.

With regards,
Jay B.
[[User:ILVI]]

--
ilooy.gaon at gmail.com