[Foundation-l] Re: Swedish, Spanish, French Wikinews set up

[Anthere]

Angela a écrit:
> Anthere wrote:

>>Baf
>>http://fr.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Contributions&target=Baf
>>Will probably not be a very strong participant here given the number of
>>recent edits;
> 
> 
> 165 edits since the start of last month. Is this not enough? How many
> edits are people supposed to make before they are allowed to vote for
> a Wikinews?

And about 25 edits in the past 30 days, basically all of them being 
adding categories.


>> Manu
>>
>>http://fr.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Contributions&target=Manu
>>No participation since october
> 
> 
> That's because he's changed username:
> http://fr.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Contributions&target=Emmanuel_legrand
> 75 edits since the start of last month
> 
> Was not counted anyway.

Fair enough.
Should be counted

> 
>>DCLXVI
>>http://fr.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Contributions&target=DCLXVI
>>Less than 50 edits. Is bulgarian.
> 
> 
> Has almost 1500 edits on bg.

Then he can certainly participate to the bulgarian wikinews.


>>159753
>>http://fr.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Contributions&target=159753
>>2 edits
> 
> 
> Also has around 800 edits on en.

Then he can certainly participate to the english wikinews.


 >There were also six people who voted in support of Wikinews on the
 >French voting page but did not list themselves on the new page.

True, but a supporter does not mean the person will participate.

Just as someone can participate now and be not listed on supporters of 
course


 >How many edits do users need to have? I'm very surprised you think
 >that 160 edits in 2 months is not enough. What more do they need
 >before a Wikinews can be created?

When the editor has 160 in 2 months, but only about a dozen in the past 
month, I basically consider that he will not contribute.

When the editor has 800 edits in another language, it is not exactly an 
argument to me to show he will participate in french.

You have the option to list yourself on this page, and you have 
thousands of edits on dozen of wikis, so according to what your opinion 
is of whose vote should be counted, this would count as a "approval" 
amongst the 5 people.

The truth is that even if we count your vote, I am ready to eat my socks 
if you become a participant adding content and setting up policies on 
the french wikinews Angela.

So, the minimum for an editor vote to be acceptable would be that this 
editor speaks french and participate in decent amount to any french 
speaking project.

No ?


> How many edits do users need to have? I'm very surprised you think
> that 160 edits in 2 months is not enough. What more do they need
> before a Wikinews can be created?


The question is

Do we want a wikinews to be created in one particular language, because 
1 editor from bg, one editor from en, one editor from fr, and a couple 
of minor editors makes it a round 5.

Or do we want to build a real project, with real content, with true 
quality, reliability and fairness to be set ?

The wikinews is not as the other wikimedia projects. It is under public 
scrutiny.

For all interviews I gave since december, the question of a french 
wikinews is raised. Journalists are terribly curious of this, and nearly 
each of them put a very critical look on the english version.

I do not want to have to answer to any of these journalists, "yes, we 
have a wikinews in french, yes, I agree, it is currently crap but please 
consider it as a great reflect of what we can do as a community".

This is the first point.
If editors want to start a wikinews, good, but at least, as long as it 
is basically a bunch of isolated pages with no rules, the minimum we can 
do is to indicate it is not a real ressource, but an experiment. This in 
particular important as wikinews was not supported by french community 
overall, and has only a couple of interested editors listed.
As is, it will damage our public image, and on top of damaging it, the 
decision of setting it up has been made by involving non french editors 
with no clear support from the local community.
To me, this is a clear example of pushing too hard.
We did not want it generally. We are not ready for it. But as long as 
Eric wants it, you want it and a bunch of hardly participating editors 
want it, then we should have it. My apologies here Angela, but I just 
cannot feel happy about this. I do not believe this was a fair decision.

You knew there was no clear support. You knew it would be controversial.

There are some moves which are just a little bit too bold.
Given the situation, it would have been nice to talk to french editors 
before hand.

The second point :
This example is for me a clear example where it is no use expecting that 
agreements are kept and respected fairly.

Obviously, there will be some editors to participate. Obviously it will 
not be locked.

But now that the rule of 5 editors has not been respected, we could 
possibly have the rule of mentionning the site is only a demo respected.

If nothing of the initial agreement is respected, then it is really of 
no importance to discuss things. Let us just vote without discussion and 
trying to find some consensus on things, and just say "the majority rules".

This will set a more clear direction for all our new projects at least.



> Elian wrote:
> 
>>>http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikinews/Vote/Zh
>>
>>Are you sure that this is a good idea? IMO it's questionable if a wiki
>>should really be set up if a clear majority voted against the creation
>>of wikinews, especially with the concerns raised there.
> 
> 
> People were voting for the project as a whole then, not for individual
> language versions. Now Wikinews exists, views of whether a new
> language should be added may well change.

Just as the rule of the minimum 5 could change
Just as the rule the board should approve the new site for it not to be 
marked demo could change.

Just as we just do not need to discuss things.
we can decide things and change rules after the decision is taken.

Sorry, but here, I think I have been cheated all along.

There is no such thing as community build project if a couple of people 
can change rules when they feel like it.