[Foundation-l] Requiring a References section (was Re: Enforcing WP:CITE)
Walter van Kalken
walter at vankalken.net
Thu Dec 1 20:28:05 UTC 2005
>
>
>>If you're writing about one of those topics that is a) not private
>>research/analysis of your own, but b) has never been written about
>>anywhere else [that you know of], then we need a new class of references :
>>"personal observation by [user]", with a relevant tag not unlike the
>>original-reporting templates used on Wikinews. Then it will be crystal
>>clear that readers should visit your page, and see whether they trust you
>>as the primary/original observer/author.
>>
>>
>
>Much of this falls under 'original research', doesn't it? Or are you
>talking about the cases where someone believes that something is true
>but doesn't have the references to hand?
>
>
I am surprised that both you SJ and Mart are saying this. Obviously both
off you didn't read my case about the soi article on english wikipedia.
Which is an article like many which is almost impossibly referenced.
Since the two of you never read it I'll post it again here. And
according to the 2 of you this article which is perfectly well the truth
should be deleted because it is either not referenced or "personal
research" ?
Waerth/Walter
The Soi case.
On the Dutch wikipedia I wrote the article [[soi]]. It was also written
on the english wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soi)
According to the CITE principal this article should be deleted right now
as it is not from a book nor a website, but partly from my own and any
Thais experience. Even though it contains pure facts which are the truth
it doesn't cite anything as no sources are used. Note I didn't write the
english article but it basicaly says the same as the Dutch article.
Facts:
/*1) Soi*/ (Thai <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thai_alphabet>: *???*) is
the term used in Thailand <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thailand> for a
side-street branching off a major street (/thanon
<http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Thanon&action=edit>/). An
alley is called a /Trok
<http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Trok&action=edit>/.
All true but do not have it from any book.
2) Sois are usually numbered, and are referred to by the name of the
major street and the number, as in "Sukhumvit Soi 4",
Also please come and have a look but not from any book
3) All the even-numbered sois are on one side of the street, the
odd-numbered ones on the other.
How do you want me to prove that from citations without flying you over
here?
4) If for instance a soi is added between soi 7 and soi 9 it will get
the name soi 7/1, the next one soi 7/2 etc.
Again fact new soi was added between 2 sois near my home got the 6/1
number as it was between sois 6 and 8. No sources sorry
5) Almost all sois also have a name.
I first wanted to be bolder as I have never seen a soi that doesn't also
have a name. But I decided to be a bit less sure about it
6) On lower Sukhumvit road in Bangkok for instance the soi's are named
after important landowners or families of landowners who had land in the
area in the past.
Verified with Thais whose families actually come from these landowners
and have been living in the area for a long time. Again no books.
7) Some sois become major thoroughfares and because of that get known by
their name only. Examples are Thonglor (Sukhumvit soi 55), Asoke
(Sukhumvit soi 21) etc.
Again plain fact. Books anyone?
So according to the CITE offensive this article and many like this
should be deleted even though there is nothing that is not the truth in
there. Is it original research? I do not think so. You see the problem
is when you start this CITE offensive one day one of our "police"
officers will find this article and put it up for deletion because there
are no sources. People take these so called guidelines much to strict
and cause damage with it.
This is why I would say be stricter on anons and newbies and maybe make
some kind of ranking of wikipedians that are known to work in good faith
or that are known IRL. Like me, anyone can always call me (see my
phonenumbers) I even put my homeaddress up once. I might not always be
able to quote directly where I got something from. But I am handling in
good faith.
And with me there are many people like me.
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