[Foundation-l] Re: Wikimedia Communs

[Michael Snow]

Jimmy Wales wrote:

>I remember when, once upon a time, my mail was bouncing for a day, and
>all the mailing lists automatically marked me as delivery disabled.  I
>re-enabled the major lists, but overlooked this one, which had at that
>time almost no traffic I think.
>
>Then, I thought that discussion here had fizzled.
>
It had fizzled. It took a little bit of concerted effort to get 
sustained conversations going.

>> But when we collectively, consciously or unconsciously, only discuss
>> policy issues "in his presence", our behavior gives the impression
>> of Jimbo as a MeatBall:GodKing. A number of people have criticized
>> the way these mailing lists operate, and some object to
>> participating as a result.
>...
>> I think the mailing lists are useful, but we need to be aware of
>> appearances and not reinforce the image of a cabal.
>
>I do agree with this, but what should we do?  The mailing lists are
>wide open to the public, public archives, easy subscription,
>unmoderated.  If my participation causes people to say that the lists
>are like a "King's Court", what do you recommend that I do about it?
>  
>
I don't have a recommendation for what you should do, because I think 
the problem is not with your participation, but with our collective 
behavior, as I indicated. "Our" including myself and everybody _except_ 
you. It's not just how you behave that determines whether you're a 
GodKing, it's how we behave toward you. (Though your disavowal of that 
status is helpful, and it is reassuring to know you have plans on how to 
transfer responsibilities to the community.)

The thing that prompted my comments was the differences I could observe 
between this list, which you hadn't been reading, and the other lists 
where you clearly are reading and participating. I'm sure people have 
also observed how some threads take on a much greater importance simply 
because you're participating in the thread. Some of that, I believe, is 
that people fail to see the point in raising and discussing issues when 
you're not obviously part of the conversation. We need to be more 
willing to discuss (not necessarily decide) issues without your 
"presence" to assist us. It's the difference between being a community 
that deliberates over the issues, with a leader to assist in the 
decision-making process, and being a bunch of courtiers who jockey with 
each other in order to present their petitions to the king.

You don't wish to be a GodKing. I don't wish to be part of a cabal. But 
wishing alone does not make it so - part of what determines these things 
is the perspectives of outsiders. I agree with you that the mailing 
lists are as accessible as we can make them, and that deciding not to 
participate can be counterproductive. Part of what makes us "elitist" is 
having people avoid joining us because we're supposedly elitist. But we 
still have to keep their perspective in mind, and do our best not to 
reinforce such views. The problem will not go away, we must learn to 
live with it.

Anyway, this has become sort of a longish sermon, and unfortunately my 
solutions have more of sentiment than specificity, so I'll cut it off here.

--Michael Snow
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