[Foundation-l] Copyright issues of wikimedia projects

[Daniel Mayer]

--- Erik Moeller <erik_moeller at gmx.de> wrote:
> Yes, of course. The hypothetical sentence above would be in that article.  
> In an encyclopedic biography, one single event in a person's life will  
> often be just one sentence. A Wikinews article on that same event, on the  
> other hand, could be very detailed.

But we have a whole article concerning the death of Nick Berg. Would that not
be allowed any more if Wikinews existed? 

>....
> "On March 11, after meetings with Democratic superdelegates in Washington  
> and with former opponents Howard Dean and John Edwards, Kerry accumulated  
> the 2,162 delegates required to clinch the nomination."
> 
> This one sentence in the article would be a fairly long article on  
> Wikinews: [[Kerry meets with Dean, Edwards; clinches nomination - March  
> 11, 2004]]. This would include concession quotes, details on recently  
> finished contests, photos from the events etc. If you already think the  
> article about the campaign is overloaded now - imagine if all that other  
> stuff would be added, too!

I can see that. 

> > So while original reporting would probably start on a
> > Wikinews project soon after it is started, I fear that that would draw too
> > many people away who are now working on keeping Wikipedia up-to-date.
> 
> I see your point, but I think this fear is justified only in the sense  
> that some Wikipedia contributors may choose to spend their time on  
> Wikinews instead of Wikipedia; this argument can be used against any new  
> project. The tasks themselves are very different - and, if we use fully  
> compatible licenses (which of course I also would hope for if at all  
> possible), any useful information can be copied back and forth.

I'm glad we agree - at least in part. I think that the major difference between
our positions is on the timetable and some particulars which relate to
licensing issues. 

>...
> The difference here is that while we have clear rules against original  
> research/reporting on Wikipedia, the *pressure* to do it regardless is  
> much lower and will probably always remain so.

I'm not convinced of that - there are pressure groups all over the English
Wikipedia at the moment. If people feel that the way in which they want to
participate is being suppressed, then I'm confident that they would be working
to either change Wikipedia or start a new project. But please ask them to find
out. 
 
> For every new project, we should answer a few questions:
> - Is this within our mission to educate?
> - Can this be usefully done using a wiki?
> - Will we be able to reach a critical mass?
> - Can this be better done within an existing project?
> ...

I think this is a good set of criteria. However, I would add "At this time," in
front of "can this be better done within an existing project?" This would help 
prevent us from starting projects prematurely. 

> The question "Is there pressure from an existing project to do this?"
> serves to underscore the project priority, but even if there was pressure  
> from our existing projects to do something like, say, build a Micronation  
> Wiki, that doesn't necessarily mean that we would want to do it (although,  
> given the example of the conlangs, this seems to be increasingly the  
> case).

Well pressure isn't the only thing. Whether or not the project falls in our
mandate is very important as well. 
 
> ....
> Any overlap with existing projects is important. And the question  
> whether Wikinews should be launched may be a first test case for a newly  
> defined voting process for new projects.

Differentiation and not starting a project too early is key to the overlap
issue (we can agree to disagree whether or not Wikinews is ready yet). I agree
that a Wikimedia-wide vote is eventually in order, but would like to see some
more development of the idea and seeking of potential participants first. 

> > And those people who are being stopped from doing original reporting will
> > clamor for either letting them do so in Wikipedia
> 
> Therein lies your fallacy. I - and others, I believe - would never  
> advocate original reporting in Wikipedia because I do not want to harm  
> Wikipedia. 

I appologize if you thought that my statement was direct at you - it was not. I
most *certainly* do not think you are trying to harm Wikipedia. 

>...
> > Then advertise the idea for Wikinews to see if there are enough people to
> > start such a project.
> 
> I will do this as soon as the Wikimedia Commons is launched (unless  
> someone else preemtps me, of course). One project at a time..

Fair enough. But is there enough interest in the Wikimedia Commons idea yet? 

> My goal is to find a good balance between building free educational  
> content and exposing people to said content. Obviously each of these  
> components is important. The best way to serve this goal may be a copyleft  
> license, but in an instance where we can gain tenfold exposure by adopting  
> a non-copyleft license, this is something I think we must consider.

We can agree to disagree on this point as well. I'm still hopeful that we can
work out the license issues with the FSF. 
 
> > We are, by far, the largest user of the GNU FDL so I for one am willing to
> > work with the FSF
> 
> So am I, of course, and I believe everyone else in this discussion as  
> well. A new version of the FDL or an FCL has the potential of tremendously  
> improving our current situation. There are reasonable people in the FSF  
> and I hope they will listen to our side of the story. Let's just not  
> assume the FCL will become a reality and prepare for the case that it  
> won't. A free content license migration clause for new projects would be a  
> good start - we can get rid of that clause if it turns out to be  
> unnecessary.

Well, we are both contingency planners - we both, however, have a different
plan A. Let's just leave it at that. 

-- Daniel Mayer (aka mav)


	
		
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