[Foundation-l] Re: Bounties and expenses

[Anthere]

Peter Bartlett wrote:

> There may very well be in truth in this. However whatever the arguments in
> favour of the trustees meeting, wouldn't these same arguments be equally
> applicable to the developers meeting, say? The developers at least have a
> long and proven track record. So far the board has not had the chance to
> prove its worth above the old, board-less, way at all - thus we are being
> asked to take on trust that such a use of funds would be a best use. Perhaps
> it's a shame that a certain amount of that required trust has already been
> used by the refusal to publish the election results, despite explicit
> (albeit informal) assurances to the contrary before and during the
> elections.

I think that in my 2 years and a half participation to Wikipedia, I have 
left just as long and as provable track record of what I could do than 
any developer here. The main differences are probably that most of what 
I did was on the french wikipedia and on meta, two places where I met 
you very little :-) Second difference is probably that we just have 
never met on any project. Third difference is that a lot of what I did 
has to do with organisation and people bridging, which is much less 
likely to be noticeable than a software improvement.

Once again, and I will repeat something I told privately to Mark 
yesterday as well : this whole project is based on trust and on 
volunteer work. Once we begin talking about money, the highest risk is 
that we begin comparing value of people so as to justify that some are 
*better* and *more important* than others. This is very very bad, and it 
is auto-destruction to proceed in this direction. I please ask you not 
to do that.

We are all necessary here, whether we are developing the software, 
maintaining the hardware, writing articles, fixing typos, improving 
style, organising the date, cleaning up the dirt, chasing vandals, 
writing press release, finding funds, leading decision or on the 
contrary playing the devil advocate so that no hasty decision is taken.

We are all necessary. Any single step missing is likely to be a 
disaster. So, if steps are slightly broken, perhaps like the software, 
then we should fix that step. That does not mean that step is more 
important that the other steps. This is just the broken one, at that 
moment. You still need the full stair to go up.

It would be nice, not to criticize or belittle some people, just because 
you want to promote the importance of other people. It has nothing to 
do. All are good and important. Some are just missing, and if they are 
missing, finding ways to stimulate their activity is the right way.
So, paying developers.... why not. I am sure it is also controversial 
among some of us. But I see it as a possibility. But, I really would 
like that "in an attempt to convince people that developers are 
necessary, the way to promote this is to misconsider the importance of 
the other ones".

Doing this is likely to hurt wikipedia human tissue *real* bad. It will 
bring zizany among us. Discord.

I also would like that a bit of trust is offered to Angel and I, per 
default, for the work we have both been doing for many many months now.

> Further Jimbo and Angela and Jimbo and Ant have already met. Thus it is only
> Ant and Angela who don't have a face to put words too. As these two trustees
> are much closer geographically, there is more scope for taking time and
> waiting for the most cost-effective opportunity for them to meet.
> 
> Pete/Pcb21

The only two wikipedians I have ever met are called Yann Forget and 
Alain Caraco. I met them in a meeting I went to, to present Wikipedia in 
France. I did that travel *on my own expenses* entirely.
Yann and Alain are both french people; and they are the only wikipedians 
I have met face to face.

I think I know better than you Pete, who I have met in my life, and 
apart than in dream, I have never met Jimbo.

I will go to Paris on my own money to meet with french wikipedians and 
Jimbo for the first time ever (but for Yann).

I am not a wealthy person. I will perhaps manage to pay a couple of 
trips in France this year. However, I do not plan to get out of France 
on my family money, and I will certainly not go to London to meet Angela.

And I prefer to go to Paris with my money now to meet Jimbo, because my 
income will never allow me to go to Florida to do so later in the year.