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In the same vein, here's a bit of depressing news: France had just
signed a five-year national license with Elsevier for 172 millions
euros (here are some details in French, translation to come:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://scoms.hypotheses.org/293">http://scoms.hypotheses.org/293</a>)<br>
<br>
Not only is this a heavy burden on a shrinking research budget, but
it means the global transition of French research to OA is delayed
for another five years. With the ability to read Elsevier journals,
most researchers are unlikely to shift form their usual
paywall-closed (and publishers-owned) publication model… We are
truly in a deadlock. I'm really hoping the Netherlands could come to
a better agreement (or, better still, avoid <i>any </i>agreeement).
That would be a big leap forward and a strong signal sent to my
governement…<br>
<br>
Pierre-Carl<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Le 05/11/14 22:51, Dimitar Parvanov
Dimitrov a écrit :<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAK4vM4Qc9f2Ca7zO+=63m3Q0kmE6_EhDXoiThEkC-DybF3VpmQ@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div>@Yana Absolutely! Once things have gone that far there's
almost no room to manoeuvre. As the term OA is already very
well accepted by most stakeholders, my feeling is that we
must - together with OKFN and others - make a greater effort
to defend its original definition. Currently no one is
fighting OA per se, the struggle is about what it means.
Recent blogposts were a good move on that ;)<br>
<br>
</div>
@Lodewijk Please ping us on any meaningful developments. We do
have a central interest in OA. <br>
<br>
</div>
Dimi<br>
<div>
<div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">2014-11-05 22:36 GMT+01:00
L.Gelauff <span dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:lgelauff@gmail.com" target="_blank">lgelauff@gmail.com</a>></span>:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px
0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">Hi,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>as a little background:</div>
<div>The Dutch government put down a requirement to
the universities that they have to provide open
access to their publications, i believe from the
top of my head 60% open access in 5 years, 100% in
10. At the same time, the universities are
renewing their X-year contract with major
publishers, and this is the first time [citation
needed] they put together their negotiating powers
and negotiate through their Universities
association. This is the negotiations about access
to works published by (in this case) Elsevier. It
seems the discussions got bundled (which makes
sense given the fact that the business model has
to change). To me, this feels mostly that
universities are playing it hard, and they simply
tell their researchers now "doom and fail, from 1
january, you can't access Elsevier papers any
more, because they don't meet our demands" which
of course gets lots of press attention, and might
help Elsevier to lower their price and
conditions. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I would be highly surprised if Elsevier and the
universities would actually not come to an
understanding before the deadline. So yes, the
focus is on publishing and access to Dutch
publications by the whole world, but please note
that this is a precondition for re-use. And also,
you'll probably have a hard time to explain the
scientist community why their papers should be
reusable... especially with all the plagiarism
discussions going on currently (in the Netherlands
and also Germany I think). Lets count our
blessings, and be happy if the Netherlands
universities are able to make good deals and
change the business model - that would be a big
leap already I think (most countries are not even
close to this, to the best of my knowledge,
although the rumour has it that the UK is going
the same way). </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Also, to be able to create compendia of free
knowledge, /access/ to publications is the first
necessary step of course. Being able to copy and
edit papers would be a nice to have, but that
would also first require being able to see it :) </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Finally, this would 'only' be locked down for 5
or 10 years I think, another cycle, another
revolution. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Following these discussions with a lot of
interest from closeby,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Lodewijk</div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div class="h5">
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Nov 5, 2014 at
10:16 PM, Yana Welinder <span dir="ltr"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:ywelinder@wikimedia.org"
target="_blank">ywelinder@wikimedia.org</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">Interesting development.
Thanks for forwarding, Dimi! >From the
press release, it sounds like they were
focusing of accessibility rather than free
reuse. It would be nice to be able to add
reuse to the agenda for these kind of
negotiations, before they reach deadlock
of course.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Best, </div>
<div>Yana</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div>
<div>On Wed, Nov 5, 2014 at 1:08 PM,
Dimitar Dimitrov <span dir="ltr"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:dimitar.dimitrov@wikimedia.de"
target="_blank">dimitar.dimitrov@wikimedia.de</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
</div>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<div>
<div dir="ltr">FYI<br>
<div>
<div class="gmail_quote"><br>
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr">
<div
style="margin:0in
0in 0pt">
<div
class="gmail_quote">----------
Forwarded
message
----------<br>
From: <b
class="gmail_sendername">LIBLICENSE</b>
<span dir="ltr"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:liblicense@gmail.com"
target="_blank">liblicense@gmail.com</a>></span><br>
Date: Tue, Nov
4, 2014 at 6:11
PM<br>
Subject:
Elsevier &
Dutch
universities in
a stand-off<br>
To: <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:LIBLICENSE-L@listserv.crl.edu" target="_blank">LIBLICENSE-L@listserv.crl.edu</a><br>
<br>
<br>
From: Jos Damen
<<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:josephcmdamen@gmail.com" target="_blank">josephcmdamen@gmail.com</a>><br>
Date: Tue, Nov
4, 2014 at 11:58
AM<br>
<br>
"Negotiations
between Elsevier
and universities
failed (PRESS
RELEASE<br>
VSNU, 4 November
2014)<br>
<br>
Universities
want to move to
Open Access
publications<br>
<br>
Negotiations
between the
Dutch
universities and
publishing
company<br>
Elsevier on
subscription
fees and Open
Access have
ground to a
halt.<br>
In line with the
policy pursued
by the Ministry
of Education,
Culture<br>
and Science, the
universities
want academic
publications to
be freely<br>
accessible. To
that end,
agreements will
have to be made
with the<br>
publishers. The
proposal
presented by
Elsevier last
week totally
fails<br>
to address this
inevitable
change. The
universities
hope that
Elsevier<br>
will submit an
amended
proposal. ‘From
now on we will
inform our<br>
researchers
about the
consequences of
this deadlock’,
says Gerard<br>
Meijer,
president of
Radboud
University
Nijmegen and
chief negotiator<br>
on behalf of the
VSNU."<br>
<br>
More: <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.vsnu.nl/news/newsitem/11-negotiations-between-elsevier-and-universities-failed.html"
target="_blank">http://www.vsnu.nl/news/newsitem/11-negotiations-between-elsevier-and-universities-failed.html</a><span><font
color="#888888"><span><font color="#888888"><span><font color="#888888"><br>
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