Slightly off-offtopic, but not back on-topic, yet within scope and looking forward...<div><br></div><div>I was exploring this kind of issue with ArthurPSmith yesterday on <a href="https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Abstract_Wikipedia#Hybrid_article">https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Abstract_Wikipedia#Hybrid_article</a>. I ended up drafting some possible requirements (in the context of delivering natural-language text to Wikipedias):</div><div><ul style="margin:0.3em 0px 0px 1.6em;padding:0px"><li style="margin-bottom:0.1em"><font size="2"><span style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)"><b>Requirement [a]</b>: Implicit and/or explicit exclusion of a Wikidata Item (explicit could be a special case of implicit but not vice versa)</span></font></li><li style="margin-bottom:0.1em"><font size="2"><span style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)"><b>Requirement [b]</b>: Wikipedias can opt out of sets of Items (including a single Item)</span></font></li><li style="margin-bottom:0.1em"><font size="2"><span style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)"><b>Requirement [c]</b>: Wikipedias can opt out of sets of images, templates etc (including sets of one), and of specific Wikidata claims (or types of claim, loosely defined...)</span></font></li><li style="margin-bottom:0.1em"><font size="2"><span style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)"><b>Requirement [d]</b>: Inclusion of anything subject to [c], if unconditional, implies opt-out by Wikipedias opting out under [c] (opt-outs are inherited upwards by unconditional inclusion)</span></font></li></ul></div><div><br></div><div>Do these make sense? Would they address the problem being discussed here in full, or only in part? I would put "short description" under [c], as a "type of claim", but I was already thinking [c] could be divided up. (Now it looks to me as if the "explicit" part of [a] is the same as the "single item" in [b], but they are what they are, for now..."All work is preliminary")</div><div><br></div><div>Best regards,</div><div>Al.</div><div><br>On Thursday, 30 July 2020, <<a href="mailto:abstract-wikipedia-request@lists.wikimedia.org">abstract-wikipedia-request@lists.wikimedia.org</a>> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Send Abstract-Wikipedia mailing list submissions to<br>
<a href="mailto:abstract-wikipedia@lists.wikimedia.org">abstract-wikipedia@lists.<wbr>wikimedia.org</a><br>
<br>
To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit<br>
<a href="https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/abstract-wikipedia" target="_blank">https://lists.wikimedia.org/<wbr>mailman/listinfo/abstract-<wbr>wikipedia</a><br>
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to<br>
<a href="mailto:abstract-wikipedia-request@lists.wikimedia.org">abstract-wikipedia-request@<wbr>lists.wikimedia.org</a><br>
<br>
You can reach the person managing the list at<br>
<a href="mailto:abstract-wikipedia-owner@lists.wikimedia.org">abstract-wikipedia-owner@<wbr>lists.wikimedia.org</a><br>
<br>
When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific<br>
than "Re: Contents of Abstract-Wikipedia digest..."<br>
<br>
<br>
Today's Topics:<br>
<br>
1. Re: How to store wikitext along the structured content?<br>
(Peter Southwood)<br>
2. Re: Off-topic, was How to store wikitext along the structured<br>
content? (Peter Southwood)<br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------<wbr>------------------------------<wbr>----------<br>
<br>
Message: 1<br>
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2020 13:41:17 +0200<br>
From: "Peter Southwood" <<a href="mailto:peter.southwood@telkomsa.net">peter.southwood@telkomsa.net</a>><br>
To: "'General public mailing list for the discussion of Abstract<br>
Wikipedia \(aka Wikilambda\)'"<br>
<<a href="mailto:abstract-wikipedia@lists.wikimedia.org">abstract-wikipedia@lists.<wbr>wikimedia.org</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [Abstract-wikipedia] How to store wikitext along the<br>
structured content?<br>
Message-ID: <003101d66666$582586c0$<wbr>08709440$@<a href="http://telkomsa.net" target="_blank">telkomsa.net</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
<br>
Amir, That discussion is not so much about undeploying the {{short description}} feature, it is about WMF following up on what they undertook to do to disable display of unsourced and unchecked Wikidata content in a way that suggests it is Wikipedia content once Wikipedia met the WMFs unilaterally imposed conditions against Wikipedia project consensus. I would have expected the closing to have been worked out ahead of time, and a mere formality, but it seems that interminable squabbling is possible even in as straight forward appearing a situation as this. <br>
<br>
Cheers,<br>
<br>
Peter<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
From: Abstract-Wikipedia [mailto:<a href="mailto:abstract-wikipedia-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org">abstract-wikipedia-<wbr>bounces@lists.wikimedia.org</a>] On Behalf Of Amir E. Aharoni<br>
Sent: 30 July 2020 12:22<br>
To: General public mailing list for the discussion of Abstract Wikipedia (aka Wikilambda)<br>
Subject: Re: [Abstract-wikipedia] How to store wikitext along the structured content?<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
בתאריך יום ה׳, 30 ביולי 2020 ב-13:08 מאת Peter Southwood <<a href="mailto:peter.southwood@telkomsa.net">peter.southwood@telkomsa.net</a><wbr>>:<br>
<br>
Amir,<br>
<br>
“some people are now thinking of undeploying the {{short description}} feature”<br>
<br>
Who? Where is this being discussed? I am not sure what you mean by “undeploying the feature”<br>
<br>
Agree that it was a badly handled problem and massive time-sink, but would prefer that the baby is not thrown out with the bathwater.<br>
<br>
Cheers,<br>
<br>
Peter<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_(WMF)" target="_blank">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/<wbr>Wikipedia:Village_pump_(WMF)</a> now, and a lot of different and contradicting opinions are thrown around there.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<<a href="http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient" target="_blank">http://www.avg.com/email-<wbr>signature?utm_medium=email&<wbr>utm_source=link&utm_campaign=<wbr>sig-email&utm_content=<wbr>emailclient</a>> <br>
<br>
Virus-free. <<a href="http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient" target="_blank">http://www.avg.com/email-<wbr>signature?utm_medium=email&<wbr>utm_source=link&utm_campaign=<wbr>sig-email&utm_content=<wbr>emailclient</a>> <a href="http://www.avg.com" target="_blank">www.avg.com</a> <br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
-------------- next part --------------<br>
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<br>
URL: <<a href="https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/abstract-wikipedia/attachments/20200730/356bd3af/attachment-0001.html" target="_blank">https://lists.wikimedia.org/<wbr>pipermail/abstract-wikipedia/<wbr>attachments/20200730/356bd3af/<wbr>attachment-0001.html</a>><br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 2<br>
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2020 13:54:41 +0200<br>
From: "Peter Southwood" <<a href="mailto:peter.southwood@telkomsa.net">peter.southwood@telkomsa.net</a>><br>
To: "'Charles Matthews'" <<a href="mailto:charles.r.matthews@ntlworld.com">charles.r.matthews@ntlworld.<wbr>com</a>>, "'General<br>
public mailing list for the discussion of Abstract Wikipedia \(aka<br>
Wikilambda\)'" <<a href="mailto:abstract-wikipedia@lists.wikimedia.org">abstract-wikipedia@lists.<wbr>wikimedia.org</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [Abstract-wikipedia] Off-topic, was How to store wikitext<br>
along the structured content?<br>
Message-ID: <004701d66668$35e6fa10$<wbr>a1b4ee30$@<a href="http://telkomsa.net" target="_blank">telkomsa.net</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
<br>
Charles, <br>
<br>
There may well be fallacies. Perhaps you could point out one or two of them. There is also evasion of responsibility, and delaying of what should have been done already by an ethical and competent organisation, and as usual, a lot of commenting, queries and demands from people who do not know the background. We are accustomed to this.<br>
<br>
Cheers,<br>
<br>
Peter<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
From: Abstract-Wikipedia [mailto:<a href="mailto:abstract-wikipedia-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org">abstract-wikipedia-<wbr>bounces@lists.wikimedia.org</a>] On Behalf Of Charles Matthews via Abstract-Wikipedia<br>
Sent: 30 July 2020 12:31<br>
To: General public mailing list for the discussion of Abstract Wikipedia (aka Wikilambda)<br>
Subject: Re: [Abstract-wikipedia] Off-topic, was How to store wikitext along the structured content?<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On 30 July 2020 at 11:22 "Amir E. Aharoni" <<a href="mailto:amir.aharoni@mail.huji.ac.il">amir.aharoni@mail.huji.ac.il</a>> wrote: <br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
בתאריך יום ה׳, 30 ביולי 2020 ב-13:08 מאת Peter Southwood < <a href="mailto:peter.southwood@telkomsa.net">peter.southwood@telkomsa.net</a>><wbr>: <br>
<br>
Amir,<br>
<br>
“some people are now thinking of undeploying the {{short description}} feature”<br>
<br>
Who? Where is this being discussed? I am not sure what you mean by “undeploying the feature”<br>
<br>
Agree that it was a badly handled problem and massive time-sink, but would prefer that the baby is not thrown out with the bathwater.<br>
<br>
Cheers,<br>
<br>
Peter<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_(WMF)" target="_blank">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/<wbr>Wikipedia:Village_pump_(WMF)</a> now, and a lot of different and contradicting opinions are thrown around there. <br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Clearly, if there is a definite demand for scraps of human-readable text attached to things, some people will spend time arguing that the consumer is always wrong in these situations. Just as, if you point out that it provides another way to search, they will argue that people don't, can't or shouldn't search in such ways.<br>
<br>
I feel there are fallacies lurking here, or anti-patterns, and would be happy to have names for them.<br>
<br>
Charles<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<<a href="http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient" target="_blank">http://www.avg.com/email-<wbr>signature?utm_medium=email&<wbr>utm_source=link&utm_campaign=<wbr>sig-email&utm_content=<wbr>emailclient</a>> <br>
<br>
Virus-free. <<a href="http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient" target="_blank">http://www.avg.com/email-<wbr>signature?utm_medium=email&<wbr>utm_source=link&utm_campaign=<wbr>sig-email&utm_content=<wbr>emailclient</a>> <a href="http://www.avg.com" target="_blank">www.avg.com</a> <br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
-------------- next part --------------<br>
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<br>
URL: <<a href="https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/abstract-wikipedia/attachments/20200730/7956ca2a/attachment-0001.html" target="_blank">https://lists.wikimedia.org/<wbr>pipermail/abstract-wikipedia/<wbr>attachments/20200730/7956ca2a/<wbr>attachment-0001.html</a>><br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Subject: Digest Footer<br>
<br>
______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
Abstract-Wikipedia mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Abstract-Wikipedia@lists.wikimedia.org">Abstract-Wikipedia@lists.<wbr>wikimedia.org</a><br>
<a href="https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/abstract-wikipedia" target="_blank">https://lists.wikimedia.org/<wbr>mailman/listinfo/abstract-<wbr>wikipedia</a><br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
End of Abstract-Wikipedia Digest, Vol 1, Issue 103<br>
******************************<wbr>********************<br>
</blockquote></div>