I agree with L235. I thought those boxes were a bit hefty myself... Do we have any metrics on traffic? Is it unreasonable to incorporate Google Analytics or the like? We want things to be open source, of course, but knowing the traffic we are dealing with would be helpful in planning ahead to ensure scalability.

On 30 June 2015 at 14:42, L235 Wikipedia <lixxx235wikipedia@gmail.com> wrote:
1 load balancer and two as the main webservers/processing/redundancy/actually running the stuff/etc... though we could probably do with smaller instances. For comparison, one of the m1.xlarges has more RAM, CPUs, and probably storage than my entire current small personal virtual cluster; we have two of those plus an m1.large, which is half as big as a m1.xlarge but still pretty big. (FYI, also for comparison, if you were running these instances on Amazon AWS EC2 on-demand, it would cost a combined $0.875 per hour, or roughly $650 per month, or roughly $7665 per year.) Since I'm not a nova xtools admin, I can't see the specifics about the instances, but I'm assuming if we downsized the instances, we would be able to allocate more instances for development, testing, etc. 


On Tue, Jun 30, 2015 at 11:35 AM, ShoeMaker Royality <legend.of.the.red.dragon@gmail.com> wrote:

Do we need three instances for the tools? T13

On Jun 30, 2015 11:42 AM, "Maximilian Doerr" <maximilian.doerr@gmail.com> wrote:

Problem is we are out of resources.  We maxed out the available resources we have with those three instances.  So it would have to be xtools.wmflabs.org/dev/

 

Cyberpower678

English Wikipedia Account Creation Team

Mailing List Moderator

 

From: xtools-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org [mailto:xtools-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of ShoeMaker Royality
Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2015 11:39 AM
To: Discussion list for xTools
Subject: Re: [xTools] Getting the tools moved

 

I don't know that is going to work with the recode since we'll be using our own DB. I'm thinking we should do a -dev version of the environment like ACC.  T13

On Jun 30, 2015 11:30 AM, "Maximilian Doerr" <maximilian.doerr@gmail.com> wrote:

I thought we were going to use toollabs as the testing environment?  One thing that was brought up is the readability of xTools.  A few users have mentioned Wikihistory being more readable but only working for the German version.  We should consider introducing skins as options, and incorporating the wikihistory as a potential skin option.  Skins can be adjusted with OAuth.

 

Cyberpower678

English Wikipedia Account Creation Team

Mailing List Moderator

 

From: xtools-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org [mailto:xtools-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of ShoeMaker Royality
Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2015 11:25 AM
To: Discussion list for xTools
Subject: Re: [xTools] Getting the tools moved

 

I'd like see us break most all of it up into appropriate modules. I want each component broken up into the smallest reusable chunk possible to make it simple to debug.  Yes, stating the obvious - that's not always bad. Anyways. I'll add more when I have time.  T13

On Jun 30, 2015 11:15 AM, "MusikAnimal" <musikanimal@gmail.com> wrote:

I'm okay with L235 having read-only access, but moving forward this sort of thing should be discussed first.

 

Alight, can we establish a road map? I take it Max that as a start you are going to move all the existing code over and get it running? Then we work on rewriting code?

 

About the rewrites:

~ Can we decide on a framework? My biggest concern was separating the frontend and backend, in hopefully a MVC paradigm. I believe this would make it substantially easier to debug and maintain. How about CakePHP?

~ We should divvy out the work, perhaps assign each developer to a tool, rather than all work on the same tool, so we can avoid conflicts. When we've got a better idea of exactly what we're doing we should start making phab tasks and triage them

~ We should be using a more modern (perhaps the latest) version of PHP

~ I'd like to offer my frontend expertise, though it seems like we have all of that, we just need to extract it out for the MVC structure. Anyway, just keep that in mind

 

When it comes time I can change all the links on enwiki to xtools.wmflabs.org, but I wonder if we should do that during active development. Maybe have a second instance dedicated to development, something like staging.xtools.wmflabs.org? Then we could have the devs work locally and push to a staging branch so we can all review it in a production-like environment. We'd need only minimum resources as the staging env would be for internal use only, and perhaps password-protect access. We could onboard testers as needed.

 

How does that sound?

 

~MusikAnimal

 

On 30 June 2015 at 08:44, Maximilian Doerr <maximilian.doerr@gmail.com> wrote:

I’ll see if I can get around to it later today or tomorrow.  These tools, especially articleinfo, need to get back up.

 

Cyberpower678

English Wikipedia Account Creation Team

Mailing List Moderator

 

From: xtools-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org [mailto:xtools-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of ShoeMaker Royality
Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2015 8:39 AM


To: Discussion list for xTools
Subject: Re: [xTools] Getting the tools moved

 

I'll work on tools code in a couple weeks. Just too busy with midterms right now.

On the topic of signatures, I generally dislike them... period.  I know my mobile clients add one, and it's not worth the effort to make those go away and I wouldn't expect others to for that kind of one liner.

I still don't understand networking and linux very well either.  I took a class, so can kinda get around inside, but don't know much about what everything is or how things work.  Would love to learn more, but I need small chunks for each thing and practice.

I do use reply all.  There were a couple messages I intentionally sent to just certain people, and I'm not upset they replied to the group quoting.

I'm ShoeMaker (http://ddowiki.com/page/User:ShoeMaker - http://enwp.org/User:ShoeMaker)

I'll have to look more into ConnectBot on that. I use PuTTY on my home computer, and that'll be fine.

Max isn't the only one. I have my reservations as well. My biggest issue was that it wasn't discussed first and isn't following our protocol.  I'm also hesitant with the lack of experience.  Need to think about it more.

Anyways, coffee time. T13

On Jun 30, 2015 4:36 AM, "Eugene Lee" <leee@mit.edu> wrote:

Ah okay so it looks like I've taken an extended cat nap at the wrong time.

 

1. Correct Max buddy.

2. Joseve05a, what are you doing? :^)

3. L235 - no worries, I knew you'd do that and I'm not worried about you. I'd like to see how xtools run first round when T13 (?) wrenches the existing codebase into shape. I think it'll be a better idea to deploy amongst 4 m1.mediums and load balance amongst them.

4. Joseve05a, make a less messy signature =]

5. Yeah Max, of course it is! xtools has been down for so long.

6. You're in bastion with your keys thanks to your client but you can't get into an instance because "keys are difficult if you've never used them before". Please see https://wikitech.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Access, and especially take a good look at using ProxyCommand. This is why people prefer a sane OS like OS X or any nix variant. GUIs are just... messy. =]

7. T13, remember! There's a reply-all button that we all love to use. =]

8. Yes, standard ports all around.

9. L235, I'm okay with you sticking around. It's also nice to have level-headed and adept outsiders take a good look for sanity checks.

10. Max buddy, you're not properly using your keys to access the instance.

11. ... What? Who's ShoeMaker Royality? That's... a pretty interesting name to use. I've yet to encounter "royality". Nice username though.

12. T13 - use an ssh client that supports keys, and look into ProxyCommand or agent forwarding. The latter is a Bad Idea, especially if you're using labs keys for other things.

13. T13 - sure, one could always port forward port 22. It would be quite unwise of you to do that, especially in a production environment like labs. When properly done, the security afforded is worth the pain. For Labs, it is.

14. Max, I think you're the only one debating L235's stay =]

15. L235 is right. Do you know the definition of the word bastion? Think of it as a... VPN server, for lack of a better phrase.

 

fin.


--leee

 

On Mon, Jun 29, 2015 at 9:01 PM, Maximilian Doerr <maximilian.doerr@gmail.com> wrote:

We need plenty of server maintainers and code maintainers.  In case Elee is absent, someone else can step in if need be.

 

Cyberpower678

English Wikipedia Account Creation Team

Mailing List Moderator

 

From: xtools-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org [mailto:xtools-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of L235 Wikipedia
Sent: Monday, June 29, 2015 8:57 PM


To: Discussion list for xTools
Subject: Re: [xTools] Getting the tools moved

 

T13, you definitely can't connect to "xtools-legacy-1.xtools.eqiad.wmflabs" directly. At a high level, you connect to the open-to-the-internet host at bastion.wmflabs.org, and that is a server behind the WMFLabs firewall that has permissions to connect to the webservers. I don't personally use that client, but https://wikitech.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Access provides good advice, and someone in #wikimedia-labs can provide you with specifics.

 

Cyberpower, that is understood, though I'm not certain what I'm being voted in for. I'm fine with being a maintainer, but I don't plan on writing code or doing much like that; I can administrate servers if needed but I'd like to mainly observe and suggest; I also will likely "abstain" on almost all votes/etc.


 

On Mon, Jun 29, 2015 at 7:46 PM, Maximilian Doerr <maximilian.doerr@gmail.com> wrote:

I vote to add L235, provided L235 honors that we operate on a consensus here too.  All major changes should be discussed, including adding or expelling maintainers.

 

Cyberpower678

English Wikipedia Account Creation Team

Mailing List Moderator

 

From: xtools-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org [mailto:xtools-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of L235 Wikipedia


Sent: Monday, June 29, 2015 8:35 PM
To: Discussion list for xTools
Subject: Re: [xTools] Getting the tools moved

 

Cyberpower, yes. No formal training, but I'm decent.

 

Folks, you need to connect to bastion first, and then connect to xtools-legacy-1.xtools.eqiad.wmflabs. You can't SSH to the webservers directly; that is a gigantic security risk.


 

On Mon, Jun 29, 2015 at 7:28 PM, ShoeMaker Royality <legend.of.the.red.dragon@gmail.com> wrote:

I can't connect either ftr.

See attached screenshot.

On Jun 29, 2015 7:16 PM, "Maximilian Doerr" <maximilian.doerr@gmail.com> wrote:

So you’re saying you have Linux experience?

 

Cyberpower678

English Wikipedia Account Creation Team

Mailing List Moderator

 

From: xtools-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org [mailto:xtools-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of L235 Wikipedia
Sent: Monday, June 29, 2015 7:10 PM
To: Discussion list for xTools
Subject: Re: [xTools] Getting the tools moved

 

Actually, I suppose I did work on production on a project called the "Orion Belt Coalition", which was a cryptocurrency-related project (and is now down), but I only spent about 30 hours working on that, and a lot of that time was cursing some sysadmins who had decided to use Windows Server for some parts of it instead of a nice Ubuntu LAMP stack or similar. And I also designed some other stuff for cryptocurrency, etc, but that didn't have too much to do with PHP/JavaScript.


 

On Mon, Jun 29, 2015 at 6:01 PM, L235 Wikipedia <lixxx235wikipedia@gmail.com> wrote:

Cyberpower, without screenshots and/or logs, I can't help you. I'm not too familiar with PuTTY though because I mainly use GNU/Linux and other Unix-like operating systems with native ssh.

 

T13, my "qualifications and experiences" are basically "I read stuff on the Internet and I tinker and optimize on my small cluster"; nothing professionally.

 

L235 (mobile)



On Monday, June 29, 2015, Maximilian Doerr <maximilian.doerr@gmail.com> wrote:

I’d still prefer a discussion.  I haven’t revoked yet because I don’t want to be a dick.  As for SSHing in, I followed the instructions and keep getting “Server unexpectedly closed network connection”

 

Cyberpower678

English Wikipedia Account Creation Team

Mailing List Moderator

 

From: xtools-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org [mailto:xtools-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of L235 Wikipedia
Sent: Monday, June 29, 2015 6:46 PM
To: Discussion list for xTools
Subject: Re: [xTools] Getting the tools moved

 

T13, host is xtools-legacy-1.xtools.eqiad.wmflabs, port is default 22.

 

FYI, since it looks like no one actually has objections to me on the project and/or no one has revoked my access even though everyone on this list has the technical power to do that, I'm going to consider myself having permission to have read access to server files.


 

On Mon, Jun 29, 2015 at 5:44 PM, Mr. Donald J. Fortier II <technical_13@yahoo.com> wrote:

Not quite, he'll also need host/port and any additional specific information for our instance. I'm assuming that our instance will use the same key that we use for toollabs that's on wikitech.wikimedia.org

 

T13

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android

From:"L235 Wikipedia" <lixxx235wikipedia@gmail.com>
Date:Mon, Jun 29, 2015 at 18:40


Subject:Re: [xTools] Getting the tools moved

Cyberpower, see https://wikitech.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Access and https://wikitech.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Putty; I assume that'll answer your questions?


 

On Mon, Jun 29, 2015 at 5:38 PM, Maximilian Doerr <maximilian.doerr@gmail.com> wrote:

Not working with PuTTY or Bastion.   Can someone give me a step by step?  I’m horrible with linux servers.  That’s why we have Elee. :p

 

Cyberpower678

English Wikipedia Account Creation Team

Mailing List Moderator

 

From: xtools-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org [mailto:xtools-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of L235 Wikipedia
Sent: Monday, June 29, 2015 6:35 PM
To: Discussion list for xTools

Subject: Re: [xTools] Getting the tools moved

 

Cyberpower, ssh xtools-legacy-1.xtools.eqiad.wmflabs


 

On Mon, Jun 29, 2015 at 5:34 PM, Maximilian Doerr <maximilian.doerr@gmail.com> wrote:

This list is catching attention fast. :p  On topic, I’m in bastion, but how come I can’t get in to xtools-lb?

 

Cyberpower678

English Wikipedia Account Creation Team

Mailing List Moderator

 

From: xtools-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org [mailto:xtools-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Jonatan Svensson Glad
Sent: Monday, June 29, 2015 6:31 PM
To: xtools@lists.wikimedia.org
Subject: Re: [xTools] Getting the tools moved

 

T13: I'm not on xTools, just reading and responding to the pipermails.

 

Jonatan Svensson Glad
President of SSU Tyresö and Editor on Wikipedia

+46 (0)760-44 24 44  | gladjonatan@outlook.com

 

 

 

All views and opinions expressed in this email message are the personal opinions of the author and do not represent those of any organization which might be related to this message. No liability can be held for any damages, however caused, to any recipients of this message.


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--

 


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