Okay, fair enough, and thank you.
On Mon, Sep 7, 2015 at 4:48 PM, Maximilian Doerr <maximilian.doerr(a)gmail.com
wrote:
> At this point it shouldn’t be much more, but I’m not making any promises
> here. I might even be able to get it going tonight. Again, no promises.
>
>
>
> *From:* xtools-bounces(a)lists.wikimedia.org [mailto:
> xtools-bounces(a)lists.wikimedia.org] *On Behalf Of *Sarah (SV)
> *Sent:* Monday, September 07, 2015 7:47 PM
>
> *To:* Discussion list for xTools <xtools(a)lists.wikimedia.org>
> *Subject:* Re: [xTools] Dropping xTools as a developer
>
>
>
> I would love you to finish that, partly for back-up, but also because it
> looks good and is easy to read. But again, I don't know how much work I'm
> asking you to do.
>
>
>
> On Mon, Sep 7, 2015 at 4:41 PM, Maximilian Doerr <
> maximilian.doerr(a)gmail.com
wrote:
>
> Sarah, do you still want me to finish my work on Wikihistory as a backup?
> It does provide a slightly different amount of information.
>
>
>
> *From:* xtools-bounces(a)lists.wikimedia.org [mailto:
> xtools-bounces(a)lists.wikimedia.org] *On Behalf Of *Sarah (SV)
> *Sent:* Monday, September 07, 2015 7:37 PM
>
>
> *To:* Discussion list for xTools <xtools(a)lists.wikimedia.org>
> *Subject:* Re: [xTools] Dropping xTools as a developer
>
>
>
> Sigma, it's wonderful. Thank you for all the work you put into it.
>
> I don't want to introduce a but – but I've tried it several times
> recently, and it's not always available. Is this a Wikimedia Labs issue,
> and why is it so difficult to get connected to anything there?
>
> Sarah
>
>
>
> On Mon, Sep 7, 2015 at 4:33 PM, Maximilian Doerr <
> maximilian.doerr(a)gmail.com
wrote:
>
> Thank you Sigma for providing that. You are the true hero.
>
>
>
> *From:* xtools-bounces(a)lists.wikimedia.org [mailto:
> xtools-bounces(a)lists.wikimedia.org] *On Behalf Of *Sigma (WP)
> *Sent:* Monday, September 07, 2015 6:03 PM
>
>
> *To:* Discussion list for xTools <xtools(a)lists.wikimedia.org>
> *Subject:* Re: [xTools] Dropping xTools as a developer
>
>
>
> I'm just gonna leave
https://tools.wmflabs.org/sigma/articleinfo.py here
> and see what happens.
>
>
>
> On Mon, Sep 7, 2015 at 1:51 PM, Sarah (SV) <slimvirgin(a)gmail.com
wrote:
>
> Eugene said he would get WikiHistory running for the English Wikipedia.
> Cyberpower, was it you who set it up for articles, or was that Eugene?
>
> Sarah
>
>
>
> On Mon, Sep 7, 2015 at 8:29 AM, Maximilian Doerr <
> maximilian.doerr(a)gmail.com
wrote:
>
> YES, YES, YES. Exactly. I took xTools over 3 years ago because it was
> fun, and I had the time and resources to do it. Kudpung, you fail to
> realize that when I took it over I had the resources to commit to it. I
> singlehandedly moved the tools from toolserver to labs, which was no small
> task. I single handedly have been keeping them running as best as I can
> until Hedonil came along. In which case he rewrote everything, and made
> things impossible for me. When I asked about the code, he disappeared
> leaving me in an impossible situation, I attempted to recruit more people,
> but that failed too. Then you came along and kept pushing for an immediate
> where non-existed. I no longer have any enthusiasm to maintain these
> tools. I can try and get Wikihistory fully operational, but after that, I
> will no longer be maintaining the code for xTools.
>
>
>
> *From:* xtools-bounces(a)lists.wikimedia.org [mailto:
> xtools-bounces(a)lists.wikimedia.org] *On Behalf Of *MusikAnimal
> *Sent:* Monday, September 07, 2015 10:10 AM
> *To:* Discussion list for xTools <xtools(a)lists.wikimedia.org>
> *Subject:* Re: [xTools] Dropping xTools as a developer
>
>
>
> As far as I know the Germin WikIHistory tool only works on mainspace
> articles. Cyber ported this over to enwiki a while back, it's at
>
http://tools.wmflabs.org/xtools/wikihistory/
>
>
>
> We've been using SIgma's tool as an alternative, as it supports all
> namespaces, but it appears all of sigma's tools are down at the moment.
>
> Frankly, other than the article info (revision history) tool, xtools is
> not in terrible shape. The service goes down every so often, but a simple
> restart does the trick. I've talked to the labs folks about getting our
> nifty bash scripts back up to do that job for us, and I can try to focus on
> that in the near future. Sometimes I doubt we should bother with a rewrite.
> It's a lot of work and I get the hunch none of us really want to do it.
>
> That being said, I'm actively having fun developing my own suite of tools,
> beginning with a non-automated edit counter
> <https://tools.wmflabs.org/musikanimal/nonautomated_edits>. From there I
> look forward to creating similar tools to what we already enjoy with other
> tools, but I'm just doing it again both for fun and to offer an additional
> line of services in the event the others go down. Working on xtools should
> be no different, in that you should be having fun doing it. Any added
> pressure to get things done compromises this important aspect. If you are
> unable to fulfill a deadline you made, oh well. The only situation where
> unfulfilled volunteer work should truly matter is where it was
> court-ordered.
>
>
>
> On 7 September 2015 at 02:07, Sarah (SV) <slimvirgin(a)gmail.com
wrote:
>
> Sorry, I wrote that we need article histories, but I meant page histories.
>
>
>
> On Sun, Sep 6, 2015 at 11:06 PM, Sarah (SV) <slimvirgin(a)gmail.com
wrote:
>
> Hi everyone,
>
> I joined this list not long ago in the hope of finding out what progress
> has been made. My problem is that I have no technical skills, so I can't
> help with this, don't know how much time is involved, and can't find out
> why the tools suddenly stopped working. Or why Wikimedia Labs is so often
> unreachable.
>
> As Chris says, we really need some of these tools, in particular article
> histories. Is there anyone on this list who is willing to make WikiHistory
> work? It currently works for articles only. Eugene said he would carry it
> over from the German Wikipedia, but I don't know what happened.
>
> WikiHistory looks good and is very stable on the German WP, so that seems
> like something worth working on.
>
> Sarah
>
>
>
> On Sun, Sep 6, 2015 at 10:22 PM, Chris <cs(a)edubkk.org
wrote:
>
> As we appear to be throwing around with accusaions here - or trying to
> feel accused, I want out that part of the dilemma is directly attributed to
> users who in their enthusiasm to be helpful took on more than they had time
> and/or knowledge to fulfil. In any volunteer community this always ends
> badly. The moral of the story is: Don’t say you will if there’s a
> likelyhood you can’t, and if later you can’t, tell us so and don’t string
> us along with excuses however valid they may be.
>
>
>
> The problem we are faced with right now is that time has run out and there
> is no time left for people to learn php or Python while they address these
> 2-year-old problems; what we need from among our 22 million registered
> accounts are two or three people who speak php and Python as fluently as I
> speak English, French, and German.
>
>
>
> I am not a code writer. Belive me when I say that if I were, I’d be doing
> it all myself. I am one of the regular users of these tools and I can
> assure you all that they are not some little gimmicks for the curiosity of
> newbies. They are essential for example, for providing statistics to back
> up proposals for implementing serious measures to combat some of the worst
> things that happen on Wikipedia. Or perhaps none of you are aware of
> Orangemoody, for example.
>
>
>
> We Thank you all for the effort you have put into these issues.
>
>
>
> I rest my case.
>
>
>
>
>
> Kudpung
>
>
>
>
>
> On 7Sep, 2015, at 10:18, L235 Wikipedia <l235(a)l235.net
wrote:
>
>
>
> Respectfully, Kudpung, I agree with Cyberpower678 that your messages to
> this list have been less productive than they could have been. They have
> essentially been "the beatings will continue until morale improves"-style
> messages, and we all know how well those work out.
>
> For the record, I have met all of my commitments to this project. I have
> continued to make one hour a week of my time available to this project, to
> do anything I see that I can do within the capabilities I specified by
> email to the list (sysadminning, making an effort to wrangle bugs, but not
> primary development). I have continued to study PHP a little. I made my
> limitations very, very clear before I was added as a maintainer of this
> project.
>
> Wikipedia is not, should not be, and has never been our top priority. Each
> of us have our own career, our own boss (or instructor/professor/etc.), and
> our own social lives separate from Wikipedia. We are all volunteers.
> Although we should honor our commitments (to emphasize again, I did, and
> beyond – IRC/etc.), it is unreasonable to blame us for factors outside of
> our own control.
>
> I recognize that xTools is vital to the project, and I have been making
> efforts (even studying PHP, basically from scratch) to try to fix it.
> Please feel free to send us messages describing the usage of this tool by
> the community, and you are more than welcome to start contributing directly
> (i.e. hack, code, sysadmin, etc.), but until you do, please don't try to
> *supervise* us. (Again, suggestions, reminders, etc., are appreciated
> regardless.)
>
> I am trying to get in contact with Eugene to see if he can come back on
> the project.
>
> Respectfully,
> L235, in my role as a maintainer and sysadmin of xTools
>
> Kudpung, I honestly felt like your badgering was more like pushing me
> around and demanding I do work on xTools in all off my free time. I never
> said I had a bountiful amount of free time. I've always asserted that I
> was missing the time needed to fully dedicate to the project, but I was
> also the only one doing something code related. Now no one is. I was
> never being dishonest about my lack of time. If you really need someone
> who can truly dedicate the time, talk to Sigma. From what I gather, he's
> more capable anyways. Anyways, I'm now focusing my time clearing out the
> backlog over at bot requests, and maybe some RfC closures.
>
>
>
> Cyberpower678
>
> English Wikipedia Account Creation Team
>
> Mailing List Moderator
>
>
> On Sep 6, 2015, at 08:52, Chris <cs(a)edubkk.org
wrote:
>
> " The first reason is that xTools requires a great deal of person's time
> which is something I'm lacking. “
>
>
>
> This is really the only reason. I’ve been encouraging, then badgering,
> then badgering some more - but not bullying. And if we had had a clear and
> honest answer like this months ago perhaps we would have found the people
> we need.
>
>
>
> Now, because of recent events, Wikipedia is in the shit, and we’re all up
> shit creek without a paddle and can’t do anything about it.
>
>
>
> Kudpung
>
>
>
> On 6Sep, 2015, at 19:45, Maximilian Doerr <maximilian.doerr(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
>
>
>
> The first reason is that xTools requires a great deal of person's time
> which is something I'm lacking.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Maintainers: Cyberpower678, Technical 13, MusikAnimal, Elee, Nakon, L235
> xTools mailing list
> xTools(a)lists.wikimedia.org
>
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Maintainers: Cyberpower678, Technical 13, MusikAnimal, Elee, Nakon, L235
> xTools mailing list
> xTools(a)lists.wikimedia.org
>
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools
>
> _______________________________________________
> Maintainers: Cyberpower678, Technical 13, MusikAnimal, Elee, Nakon, L235
> xTools mailing list
> xTools(a)lists.wikimedia.org
>
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Maintainers: Cyberpower678, Technical 13, MusikAnimal, Elee, Nakon, L235
> xTools mailing list
> xTools(a)lists.wikimedia.org
>
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Maintainers: Cyberpower678, Technical 13, MusikAnimal, Elee, Nakon, L235
> xTools mailing list
> xTools(a)lists.wikimedia.org
>
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Maintainers: Cyberpower678, Technical 13, MusikAnimal, Elee, Nakon, L235
> xTools mailing list
> xTools(a)lists.wikimedia.org
>
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Maintainers: Cyberpower678, Technical 13, MusikAnimal, Elee, Nakon, L235
> xTools mailing list
> xTools(a)lists.wikimedia.org
>
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Maintainers: Cyberpower678, Technical 13, MusikAnimal, Elee, Nakon, L235
> xTools mailing list
> xTools(a)lists.wikimedia.org
>
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Maintainers: Cyberpower678, Technical 13, MusikAnimal, Elee, Nakon, L235
> xTools mailing list
> xTools(a)lists.wikimedia.org
>
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Maintainers: Cyberpower678, Technical 13, MusikAnimal, Elee, Nakon, L235
> xTools mailing list
> xTools(a)lists.wikimedia.org
>
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools
>
>