purodha@svn.wikimedia.org wrote:
Revision: 38382 Author: purodha Date: 2008-08-01 17:47:41 +0000 (Fri, 01 Aug 2008)
Log Message:
Minor typing error in German localisation.
Please note that the German language is now localised at Betawiki, therefore your changes will be overwritten on the next export.
MinuteElectron.
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MinuteElectron wrote:
purodha@svn.wikimedia.org wrote:
Revision: 38382 Author: purodha Date: 2008-08-01 17:47:41 +0000 (Fri, 01 Aug 2008)
Log Message:
Minor typing error in German localisation.
Please note that the German language is now localised at Betawiki, therefore your changes will be overwritten on the next export.
BetaWiki needs to fix that problem... Somehow they manage to update the English messages, so it's surely not impossible. :)
- -- brion
Brion Vibber wrote:
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MinuteElectron wrote:
purodha@svn.wikimedia.org wrote:
Revision: 38382 Author: purodha Date: 2008-08-01 17:47:41 +0000 (Fri, 01 Aug 2008)
Log Message:
Minor typing error in German localisation.
Please note that the German language is now localised at Betawiki, therefore your changes will be overwritten on the next export.
BetaWiki needs to fix that problem... Somehow they manage to update the English messages, so it's surely not impossible. :)
English messages are not exported by Betawiki so there is nothing to update. Two way synchronization requires a lot more work if edit history is to be maintained (updates would be passed through to Betawiki if all messages were deleted on export, but this would be undesirable and break attribution). This is currently on the agenda, but I do not know when it will be resolved.
MinuteElectron.
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MinuteElectron wrote:
BetaWiki needs to fix that problem... Somehow they manage to update the English messages, so it's surely not impossible. :)
English messages are not exported by Betawiki so there is nothing to update. Two way synchronization requires a lot more work if edit history is to be maintained (updates would be passed through to Betawiki if all messages were deleted on export, but this would be undesirable and break attribution). This is currently on the agenda, but I do not know when it will be resolved.
If it's not done before the next mailing list fight between someone working on translations and someone else telling them that they MUST use BetaWiki or their work will be ignored and overwritten, I'll be most put out.
Resolving this ought to be a relatively simple matter of marking when the exports are done, so the front-end can detect if the state of a message has changed in the language files.
- -- brion
Brion Vibber wrote:
If it's not done before the next mailing list fight between someone working on translations and someone else telling them that they MUST use BetaWiki or their work will be ignored and overwritten, I'll be most put out.
I'm sorry if there was a misunderstanding, but I was not telling anyone that they MUST use Betawiki - it was simply advice. There was no fight either (and there hasn't been fights about this in months since there has always been a very clear split, if anyone works on a language regularly in core then it is not supported by Betawiki). Chances are that in this particular case there would have been no issue with overwriting anyway given that German is such a new addition to Betawiki.
MinuteElectron.
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MinuteElectron wrote:
Brion Vibber wrote:
If it's not done before the next mailing list fight between someone working on translations and someone else telling them that they MUST use BetaWiki or their work will be ignored and overwritten, I'll be most put out.
I'm sorry if there was a misunderstanding, but I was not telling anyone that they MUST use Betawiki - it was simply advice. There was no fight either (and there hasn't been fights about this in months since there has always been a very clear split, if anyone works on a language regularly in core then it is not supported by Betawiki). Chances are that in this particular case there would have been no issue with overwriting anyway given that German is such a new addition to Betawiki.
This issue comes up every few months on the list, and often (but not always) involves angry words as some people feel their volunteer contributions are not being valued etc etc.
I'd much prefer that it *not* do so in the future.
- -- brion
MinuteElectron minuteelectron@googlemail.com writes:
I'm sorry if there was a misunderstanding, but I was not telling anyone that they MUST use Betawiki - it was simply advice. There was no fight either (and there hasn't been fights about this in months since there has always been a very clear split, if anyone works on a language regularly in core then it is not supported by Betawiki).
That is unfortunately not the case. I stopped doing the danish translations because of interference, and contrary to the theory, this has given more local translation work on dawiki, not less.
Hoi, The opposite happens as well, there are people localising the Flagged Revisions locally on their project and they have asked for Betawiki not to localise it as well. There are good reasons why it is not a good idea to localise locally.
- Flagged revisions are used elsewhere and your localisation is not available as a consequence - A local effort does not benefit from the management of changed messages Betawiki provides - The messages explaining what a message is there for is not available
Localisers are free to localise Flagged Revisions at Betawiki... Betawiki provides the localisation everywhere. Thanks, Gerard
On Fri, Aug 1, 2008 at 10:13 PM, Brion Vibber brion@wikimedia.org wrote:
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MinuteElectron wrote:
BetaWiki needs to fix that problem... Somehow they manage to update the English messages, so it's surely not impossible. :)
English messages are not exported by Betawiki so there is nothing to update. Two way synchronization requires a lot more work if edit history is to be maintained (updates would be passed through to Betawiki if all messages were deleted on export, but this would be undesirable and break attribution). This is currently on the agenda, but I do not know when it will be resolved.
If it's not done before the next mailing list fight between someone working on translations and someone else telling them that they MUST use BetaWiki or their work will be ignored and overwritten, I'll be most put out.
Resolving this ought to be a relatively simple matter of marking when the exports are done, so the front-end can detect if the state of a message has changed in the language files.
- -- brion
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On Fri, Aug 1, 2008 at 4:22 PM, Gerard Meijssen gerard.meijssen@gmail.com wrote:
Hoi, The opposite happens as well, there are people localising the Flagged Revisions locally on their project and they have asked for Betawiki not to localise it as well. There are good reasons why it is not a good idea to localise locally.
- Flagged revisions are used elsewhere and your localisation is not
available as a consequence
- A local effort does not benefit from the management of changed messages
Betawiki provides
- The messages explaining what a message is there for is not available
Localisers are free to localise Flagged Revisions at Betawiki... Betawiki provides the localisation everywhere. Thanks, Gerard
On Fri, Aug 1, 2008 at 10:13 PM, Brion Vibber brion@wikimedia.org wrote:
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MinuteElectron wrote:
BetaWiki needs to fix that problem... Somehow they manage to update the English messages, so it's surely not impossible. :)
English messages are not exported by Betawiki so there is nothing to update. Two way synchronization requires a lot more work if edit history is to be maintained (updates would be passed through to Betawiki if all messages were deleted on export, but this would be undesirable and break attribution). This is currently on the agenda, but I do not know when it will be resolved.
If it's not done before the next mailing list fight between someone working on translations and someone else telling them that they MUST use BetaWiki or their work will be ignored and overwritten, I'll be most put out.
Resolving this ought to be a relatively simple matter of marking when the exports are done, so the front-end can detect if the state of a message has changed in the language files.
- -- brion
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I understand the idea, and I'd like to echo it. MediaWiki should ship with one set of messages, not two (the ones in trunk and Betawiki's). When a conflict arises (which isn't often, as Betawiki does the vast majority of localization, for which I believe everyone is immensely grateful), I believe it shouldn't be automatically the prevailing choice.
I spoke with Siebrand, who said before applying, a manual review and check for conflicts arise. I would think a simple check for "Was this message updated after the latest Betawiki update?" would be pretty simple. The translators could then discuss why they disagree on the appropriate word/phrase/etc.
Cliche as it sounds: working together gets a better result :-)
-Chad
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